God the book of Genesis is so fucking dumb, I can’t believe people base their entire worldview around it. Like there’s people who adhere to all forms of ridiculous Christian morality, some less so, some more so, but ON TOP OF THAT also believing that fuckin Abraham wasn’t in active psychosis and was a reliable source, or that Jesus is the actual son of God, what the fuck…
The dumbest part of religion is the answers. The absolute coolest part is “YOU KNOW NOTHING OF THE ABSOLUTE, BOW DOWN IN IGNORANCE MORTAL” like hell yea i can get down with being a dumbass more than listening to someone who doesn’t know he’s a dumbass
or that Jesus is the actual son of God
I mean… He kind of claimed to be the Son of God, did miracles, and then proceeded to die and rise again from the death
Did he, though?
People claimed someone did those things, the zombie part was added somewhere around 300 years AFTER the claimed date of death.
Source?
Why would Lilith not be a sibling of Adam if Eve is?
Eve was made from Adam’s rib, so presuming that humans work like bananas, eve is Adam’s clone, not sibling.
Lilith was made from the dust of the Earth like Adam. The story is that this is the reason why she was independent minded and as a result God made a new woman from the rib of man so that woman would be “from man” and more likely to be obedient to God and man. Not stating my opinion - that’s just what I read.
Presumably because she wouldn’t have been made from his rib like Eve. But OP conveniently ignores the fact that Lilith is way too badass to have been a part of most mainline flavors of Judaism and Christianity. So she isn’t mentioned because most religious people don’t accept her as a part of their canon. They should. It’s a great story.
Thing is, Lilith didn’t pop up in texts apart from post-Jesus, such as talmudic texts. (although a Lilith was mentioned in Isaiah, it could have been a demon of some sort) so she’d only really be regarded by modern day Judaism, not by Christians.
I don’t think creationism is particularly bothered by genetics.
Apparently telomeres used to be so long they wrapped around your ankles and you lived to be 600.
I also hear she’s a super sexy top.
Which might be relevant if those were real people. You might as well worry about the genetic makeup of Pokemon
Are you saying pokemon are not real ?
Not at all! . Pikachu assures me that he exists.
I love how some scholars say Lilith didn’t exist… None of them did!
If you’re grasping at cousins as being the sole separator you know you have a problem. But also there’s a lot of conflicting information, such as Cain settling in the city of Nod east of Eden which suggests I guess that there were people outside of Eden already. Don’t take anything too literally, and jokes are jokes.
And God got mad at Lilith for not being obedient and banished her so perhaps there were a series of Liliths. I think Eve was taken from the rib because that was supposed to make her less independently minded then creating her from the dust like Lilith.
Actually, the rib part is a bit of a mistranslation: https://youtu.be/FN4pVp6lNJ0
Because Lilith isn’t mentioned in all versions of the Adam and Eve story, and certainly isn’t mentioned in Genesis. There’s plenty of versions of the story with lots of different characters, and plenty of interpretations of what happens, but in the Canonical Christian Bible, there are at least two events where the entire human race is only directly described as being one single family - Adam and Eve, and Noah’s flood.
The Bible, and even the Torah, are compilations from stories that existed before these particular books were written down. However, the character of Lilith as “first wife of Adam” is probably not something left out of the Torah, but a much later invention.
The confusion comes from Genesis giving two creation accounts of a woman.
Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image,in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
then later…
Genesis 2:22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
It appears that a man and woman was created at the same time in Genesis 1:27, then later in Genesis 2:22 a woman was created from a rib
This is probably a result of the Hebrew literary practice of narrating a story once in poetic language and then again in prose. So it’s the same man and woman being created, just retold in a different style.
My understanding is that these were two separate stories that were compiled into official state religious texts at the time of King Josiah to unify the country under one monotheistic religion.
This is correct. Context is everything in understanding any historical source. The Hebrew texts are no different, in fact they’re a great case study in this field. They’re littered with complex poems.
This is the origin of the McRib.
Current scholarly consensus is that the Geneses are actually two different accounts, one likely originating in ancient Israel and the other in ancient Judah. It’s why the two stories are so startlingly different when you read them side by side.
Exactly. King Josiah is believed to have had religious stories and traditions from both regions of Judah (North and South).
You have to remember that which books got to be canon in the Bible were decide at the Council of Nicea
Lilith mated with demons not humans.
God is there any way where I can be Lilith?
easy
Also Adam lived quite a long life. Like several human lifetimes
Then there is this fun titbit.
Adam withdrew from Eve for 130 years after their expulsion from Eden, and in this time both he and Eve had sex with demons, until at length they reunited and Eve gave birth to Seth
What scripture is that?
It might be a creative interpretation of Genesis 5:3, which I just read as Seth being born when Adam was 130 years old.
Perhaps if they didn’t age in Eden, the concept of “living X years” wouldn’t apply, so “when Adam had lived 130 years” could be interpreted to mean after they’d been booted out. But they hadn’t had Cain and Abel before the Fall, so I don’t really see how that interpretation could work, unless it’s being merged with other narratives.
Two things about that (overanalyzing your shower thought):
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Geneticists have what they call the “50/500 rule,” which basically means that you need at least 50 people to avoid inbreeding, and at least 500 to avoid genetic drift. So while three people are 50% better than two, it’s not going to come close to avoiding inbreeding.
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If you read up on Lilith, including your Wikipedia link, you’ll see her name only comes up once in the Bible, and it’s not as Adam’s wife. All the stuff about her comes from other things, including Babylonian and Mesopotamian writings, and lots of folklore from the middle ages. And at that, she’s sometimes Adam’s first wife, with different explanations about what happened to her that really in her not coming back to the garden, or she’s a demon. So there’s not much likelihood that she’s contributing to the gene pool.
Awesome, I was showing up for the demon angle.
- Wasn’t Eve made from Adam’s rib and thus shares his DNA?
That one version. There actually two different versions of Adam and Eve.
What are the two versions?
One was they both created at same time and second version she created from one of his ribs.
That good ‘ol XX rib mmm
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Idk I thought it was an Evangelion thing
Yeah, good point.
would their kids be clones?
No, the products of incest.
Hemophilia and all that would be more likely, but no cool identical stuff going on
What is hemophilia?
It’s a disease where you don’t stop bleeding when you bleed. The name comes from Latin words for blood and love, like, your body just loves bleeding
A blood disease where your blood doesn’t clot basically.
UNBAN ME FROM PERCHANCE COMMUNITY OR LEMMY WILL BE ON ITS HANDS AND KNEES
Depends on the chromosomes, if adam had two identical ones for each the kids would be clones barring mutations.
The chances are around 260k to 1. Factoring Eve’s lack of a second sex chromosome, (unless she has swyer syndrome) the equation would be 1/((22²+1)(23²))≈0.00039%
Seeing how we’re talking about religion and first man, I don’t think we’re limited by probability here.
BTW so there are 30k people with identical chromosomes??
As you mentioned it depends on chromosomal differences, I just provided the probability of it actually happening.
And, yes. Barring any mutations or trait selectivity, if we all came from the same individual, there would be about 30k identical people of the 8.1b population.
Hmmm, no, because which of your genes you pass down is still a bit random.
Lol, I read this as “would their kids be bones?”
Lol only their mom is bones
Good response!
The only counterpoint i can see is that god is (honestly, at best WAS) infallible.
So god made 2 perfect humans who cannot inbreed as there are no defective genes.
At some point down the line, mutations came in and introduced possible genes that could combine/dominate to produce inbreeding.If we are accepting the premise of 2 original humans, why not 2 perfect original humans.
If God made eve from adams rib, why not have them be genetically perfect.
But Im sure there is some science i am missing where a huge genome analysis has shown that “perfect” genes have never or could not ever exist.And, tbh, this might as well be all science fiction based on a bunch of made up stories.
If I remember my hermeneutics, the canon is that essentially, God had “blessed” early descendants of Adam and Eve, allowing their children to thrive.
It wasn’t until after the flood I believe that incest becomes more of a theme in the Bible, implying that they shouldn’t have children.
But it’s been years since I gave this any serious study so I may be remembering incorrectly.
It all makes more sense when you consider these stories in their historical social context. They’re a compiled bundle of stories from various religious traditions that were kind of grafted together to form one monotheistic state religion to help unify the country. So you find stories from both north and south Judah for example, the two creation myths in Genesis. And you see the monotheistic god referred to by more than one moniker because they were originally different gods.
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Incest doesn’t inherently cause genetic disorders, it just increases your chance of being born with recessive genetic disorders. Most of those disorders are mutations, and if the Garden of Eden is so perfect there probably aren’t genetic disorders to start out with, meaning incest is fine from a genetic perspective. All the genetic disorders would be mutations later down the line. Maybe they’re punishment for the original sin or something, to fit it into the themes of the story.
That’s a fantastic retroactive nonsensical explanation for Adam and Eve. Bravo.
Nah genetic disorders aren’t mutations, they’re incorrect copies of original traits. I’m not a geneticist so don’t quote me on this, but the reason incest causes problems has nothing to do with mutations as they rarely happen and everything to do with not having enough variation in your own genetics to cover when there’s “data loss”. Again, I’m not a scientist.
Incorrect copies are mutations.
Correct copies are also mutations, for what it’s worth.
Sounds like a shitty retcon from an series that jumped the shark
Literally what the Talmud is after Jesus showed up who basically perfectly matched their messiah, but they rejected Him because he didn’t come with an army to bring them greatness lmao
It’s estimated that it would take about 160 people to perpetuate the species.
