If this said below average it would be better
It would be *accurate
This is the conversation created by the system. There were many other candidates than biden in 2020, but the party colluded to make biden the presidential nominee. Nothing stopped democrats from running a different candidate this year either except some superstition about the “incumbent advantage”. Remember when that incumbent advantage worked in trump’s favor in 2020…? Oh wait, it’s all bullshit when your favorability rating is so damn low like it is for biden right now. It’s okay, if we close our eyes and ears and scream “BUT THE OTHER GUY” loud enough, I’m sure it’ll all work out. We should be asking why the machine only has two buttons, starting from a low bar and only going lower.
We should be asking why the machine only has two buttons, starting from a low bar and only going lower.
A result of FPTP-voting and the way campaigns are financed. What you get is exactly what the old roman aristocrats intended, when they designed this system over 2 millenia ago to maintain influence: keeping money where the power is and vice versa.
By “the party” you mean millions of voters? Or do you also just deny their agency?
Name two states in the primary where Biden and someone under the age of retirement were running (and not dropped out and endorced Biden) that Biden won. SC and ???
Billions upon billions of dollars are spent on advertising and media and you think that this has no influence in a party-controlled process where the party can decide to tell others to drop and support a single candidate.
Sounds like a great moment to remember this:
Biden signals to aides that he would serve only a single term
The Democratic party should act in accordance to what its members want to believe is most appropriate, not what its elites impose on them.
… some superstition about the “incumbent advantage.”
We probably agree overall but I’m compelled to point out: in political science, incumbency advantage is definitely not considered superstition. In fact it’s one of the strongest known electoral advantages, especially in US presidential elections.
If it were just throwing salt over the shoulder, we wouldn’t be able consistently verify the hypothesis with high p in double and triple blind studies across eras, cohorts, and sociopolitical strata.
TL;DR Agreed mostly, esp re: Duverger, BUT incumbency advantage is real. Carry on.
Ok great, we worked out what to do on election day. Now, what are we going to do the rest of the time? We must organize and build political structures outside the two parties, must force action to change the way the fundamental government of the United States operates so that it is a democratic body void of money, gerrymandering, the senate, and the nature of the Supreme Court. Congresspeople must represent a realistic and small number of people.
This is the idea behind /c/inperson@slrpnk.net. The idea is, instead of using this platform to gripe at each other about “yes it is” “no it isn’t” “yes it is”, we can start to organize and make things better.
I propose that any time one of those awful “no one vote it definitely won’t matter trust me” posts comes up, we make a thread underneath it with some links to productive positive things we’re doing in addition to, obviously, voting for the guy who’s not going to blow up the country and piss on the ashes. Turn the shilling into a reminder to get out and do something concrete.
Right after I get done typing this I’m going to go back to trying to figure out a way I can volunteer some time to the Biden campaign. I’m going to be honest, I feel a little corny even typing that out, but I think trying to make sure Trump doesn’t win is for real the most effective thing that’ll set us up for more positive change and less end-of-the-world disaster in the near future.
No, volunteering for Joe Biden certainly is not the way to reform.
Post your recommended way to reform then. 100% unironically serious about that. All my previous posts were about “outside the establishment” venues, today’s was the first that was within the establishment.
here it isn’t a long read
Vote third party. Biden will lose this election anyways. It’s the perfect opportunity to jump ship.
Above average Democrat? Please, the guy has dementia. And no, I’m not a right winger, and I obviously think Trump is a worse option. But Biden isn’t above average anything at this point. He’s barely awake.
My family fought in both world wars. My grampa was part of the North African campaign, a cousin went down on the HMS Hood after being sunk by the Bismarck during the Battle of the Denmark Strait…
Living in Canada and watching our neighbours to the south gleefully embrace the fascism we ALL fought against is both disgusting and terrifying.
How the hell did this happen?
This is the only election where I’m throwing my arms up and saying ‘fuck it’ to.
Out of all the ones we’ve had between center-right bland white men who disagree on small quibbles of how to divvy up the work product of the working class between themselves, all of a sudden this one where there’s a for real democracy ending fascist in it with a good chance of winning, that’s the one where you say “naw I’ll sit this one out”?
Lots of useful idiots for the far-right who think they’re painted working-class red.
Please don’t
No. I’m not wasting my time, I’m sick of how this god damn society has allowed shit to be boiled down to two old fucks.
No propaganda. No influence. Just tired of this shit. And most of you are already browbeating.
People are suffering because Trump was able to get three motherfuckers on the supreme court. Voting matters.
Tell that to Kentucky, who has allowed McConnell to go on decades long destruction of his own including rushing votes. Guarantee you he will win another term and it will be his like 30th?
There are more problems than Trump.
Good news, depending on how it goes, you might not need to worry about any more elections to unsettle and disturb you in the future.
See Russia for an example as to why voter apathy won’t result in the society you want. Propaganda that influences you to not vote at all is probably the most effective with respect to destroying any semblance of representative government.
It’s reasonable to be upset at the state of things, but you’re abdicating your civic duty for nothing. Do you really believe that will void you of any responsibility for what happens next? It certainly won’t help you avoid the consequences.
There are a lot more things society could be and should be doing to better itself. It’s like what I said before with people relying on karma and invisible deities to come and save them. Do they really think the power of the vote really has that much power? I mean look, we have a system in place where regardless of the popular vote (i.e where millions in number vote) can mean moot because of the points-based system that is the electoral college. We’ve seen this demonstrated time and time again.
If voting really mattered, we’d gone away with the electoral college a long time ago.
The fact that people hinge so much on voting as their way of thinking it’s what gives them power, is truly a fool’s game and it’s a game we’ve played for years now.
My civic duty would require more than just wasting my time and effort to stick a little piece of paper down a little machine after deluding myself into thinking that the options we have right now, are the best options we’ve got. When I will be thinking that we should and could be doing more things than that. It’s just nobody wants to and I don’t see you having that kind of a vision.
You’re complaining without presenting any alternatives, which is categorically unhelpful.
You’re advocating for voter apathy which is supremely regressive.
If voting didn’t matter, there wouldn’t be such a concerted effort to disenfranchise voters, via the electoral college and otherwise.
You’re not convincing me or anyone else here that you’ve got a sober view on this; it seems like you’re hoping that accelerationism towards collapse will net a positive result. Complain all you want about voting and how imperfect it is, your vision of apathy and hopelessness is actively hateful towards anyone who wants a better world.
Alright we’ll vote 3rd party.
Here’s the part I don’t get about you people being like “zomgz vooooote!” Where was this panic when you saw Biden winning the 2020 primaries? Did you think those of us who didn’t vote for HRC were going to give Biden a free pass? I mean I assume some of you knew there would be problems because that’s where all the “we can push Biden to the left” lies must have been coming from. And now that we know Biden is only interested in moving right here we are.
So again, where was all this panic, ire and shame during the primaries? You shoulda been screaming at Biden voters that they were fucking shit up. You should’ve been screaming at the DNC not to let the primary winner be decided in a state that went to Trump. You should’ve been screaming at Obama not to back Biden. There were so many ways you could’ve tried to influence the outcome to someone better but none of you said a fucking word.
Well here we are.
It’s cute you think I wasn’t engaging in that, but go off.
To your point regarding the 2020 primaries, take a look at how they went in States that have the highest levels of voter engagement. It might shock you to learn that when more people vote, we see better outcomes.
Keep poo-pooing the vote. If you won’t do the bare fucking minimum, you don’t deserve a government that represents you. End of story.
I like how you deny my accusation and then demonstrate it in the same comment. That’s convenient for me.
I’m not trying to convince you to vote for or against anyone. I don’t care if you vote third party, I sometimes do that too. At least they help elevate calls for reforming our voting system.
You have constructed an idea of a person that does not fit what I represent. You are assigning attributes to me that aren’t accurate or based on what I’ve stated.
You are speaking in defense of someone who speaks in support of voter apathy. That’s the only thing you’ve done that merits a response.
Comon, don’t you remember? We sure taught them a lesson in 2016 by abstaining from the vote. America is paradise now that we showed our collective non-voting might! /S
Oh I remember, Hillary was a completely awful tone deaf nomination, and enough people turned out to vote for her Iraq war supporting ass anyway that she still won the popular vote and it was just our electoral college bullshit that let us all down
I really hope people do vote because at the end of the day that is the logically correct thing to do in our situation, but I totally understand being so frustrated with the bullshit you’re seeing that you just want to say fuck it
I do not. It means the propaganda is winning.
At least that terrible Hillary didn’t get elected! Gosh she was so shrill.
I mean she basically flaunted the fact that she “won” the primary election in the face of people she needed to win the general. If you’re gonna mock the criticisms of her at least have the decency to pick one near the top of the list.
I mean, people still proudly announce that they voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries. They brought this on themselves. If you’re passing out some blame how about throwing some that direction huh?
“Literally Hitler”
Yeah, I don’t like what Biden is doing in Gaza either.
The reason we need to have this conversation every time is because we want to live in a democracy
Figuratively Hitler. Literal Hitler is a skeleton by now.
As far as I’m concerned, Biden is running unopposed this year.
The media is more interested in promoting a contest than acknowledging the facts.
99% Hitler vs 100% Hitler I can’t believe I’m having to make this choice
This is the sort of post you make to get those that are really Russian shills or have absolutely no criteria to reveal themselves. There’s not any sort of comparison, and there’s going to be a lot of people who are going to try to equate them as the same to disenfranchise people from voting.
This is a disfunctioning democracy.
The problem is that the true left is excluded from the game. The center (democrat) talk like they will do something, but they rarely do so, even when they have full power to do it. Then when elections come, they put the responsibility on the leftists to stop the fascists.
It is hypocrite and toxic. It fuels fascism. It is not a solution. It’s building a dig to protect from a hurricane. It’s at best buying some time for the center to keep the status quo and let the problems rot.
Must… manufacture…drama…
Biden is committing genocide but literally Hitle…
No actually Literally Hitler is a good description of Genocide Joe.
Do you think Trump would stop the Palestinian genocide if he were in office? This is the guy that moved the embassy to appease Israel.
Wow, surprisingly I think the op vanished! What a surprising turn of events!
Linkerbaan is the most spineless user on Lemmy, they do not make good faith arguments.
B-bu- Status Quo Joe is actually really gEnOciDE jOe… please ignore US policy towards Israel since 1949.
/s
I fucking hate this guy and how all he ever says is genocide Joe. you know a complete dummy when they refer to Biden with some pathetic right wing adjective because calling someone names is all they got.
As we all know, Donald Trump would not have enabled the genocide of Palestinians far, far more than Joe has
I mean, there’s literally no fucking difference between 10 children dying and 10,000 children dying, so why should we care?
He’s an amateur compared to Xi.
