Public officials in Tennessee can now refuse to grant a marriage license to anyone at their own discretion, for any reason.
Republican Gov. Bill Lee signed into law House Bill 878 on Wednesday, which took effect immediately. The bill — just a few sentences in length — only states that “a person shall not be required to solemnize a marriage.” Only state notary publics, government officials, and religious figures can “solemnize” a marriage in Tennessee, according to state code.
None of the sponsors behind the bill have been made public statements on its introduction or passage, nor have they given comment to media organizations. The only known remarks regarding the law from state Rep. Monty Fritts (take a guess), who sponsored it in the House, are from February of last year, when he spoke to the state Subcommittee on Children and Family Affairs.
If you live in this shit states the most important thing you can do in your whole life is leave.
Its really unfortunate because one of the best national labs in the country is in Tennessee.
Ornl complains about brain drain all the time!
Tennesseeans are dumb as shit.
As someone who did, I understand the sentiment but it isn’t that easy. I have so many friends and family members who are stuck there because they can’t save enough resources to leave.
People are like marching through the American Southwest desert into a country actively trying to stop them which speaks a totally different language and with children and they can’t move within their native country?
I did it. I grew up in deep Appalachia. Packed a backpack and went on a bus. That is no where near the difficulty level an illegal faces.
Funny how many people renting apartments with an hourly job will say that though
Wdym?
The idea being you can get an hourly job and an apartment just about anywhere. The only real expense is moving your shit. Most everything else is time.
Time and effort to restablish a local social network, but people don’t want to admit that they’re mostly just scared of being alone in a new area.
Okay, I live in a shit hole state, and want out. The certification process for my career (teaching) costs money - I will likely have to pay money for a background check as well as the certification paperwork. I can’t work as a teacher because I am transgender in Oklahoma (it was safe five years ago, it is no longer). So I am doing gig work.
Is the solution really buy to drive in a random direction and hope for the best? I already have severe PTSD from needing to do sex work to survive in college, the idea of being in even more dire financial straits is the kind of thing that makes me shake. Do I need to find a weekly hotel while I try to find a job that’ll help me secure an apartment? I’m struggling with doing that here so the idea of trying to just make it work somewhere else doesn’t seem likely.
“Just move” is not helpful advice on these threads. I’m trying. The things that make me need to move are also the things that make it difficult for me to move.
I’m sorry to hear that. What’s your plan? I’m in Tennessee myself and planning on Colorado or Ireland.
I’m going to see how 2024 goes to decide whether I need a new state or a new republic.
Yeah… almost like they’re stuck in a cycle of poverty and can’t save enough money for a down payment for a house either.
So ‘funny’.
Almost as if moving across the country is expensive, and they can’t save up enough to front the cost. Hell, moving in general is expensive, but doubly so when you’re uprooting your entire life.
Or fucking vote.
Leaving is rarely an option for the people most in danger or most oppressed anyway.
“We don’t want to get rid of gay marriage” yea fuckers, we knew you were full of shit deplorables. This is beyond the fucking pale.
Why are the conservatives so homophobic? Are they having sex with your husbands or something?
I had a gay man hit me in a gay bar. I said sorry I’m straight and he called me a tease. I was sorta flattered. This must be what females feel all the time.
we wound up in a gay bar on a bucks night pub crawl once and it was awesome. also one of the only times in my life I was hit on and yeah, it’s flattering!
Did you end up having sex with him? No? Hm… still not sure why they are still so homophobic.
exactly! just enjoy the compliment
This headline is so headline grabby. Sure the local fucking bigot won’t do it, but practically anyone can qualify as eligible for solemnizing a marriage.
I think it’s real shitty what they did and are trying to do, don’t get me wrong, but LGBTQ are not going away and there’s a lot more supporters than haters out there. Even in red states many supporters remain silent to avoid the loud dumb bigots.
I can see making an exception for “religious figures” but the idea that a public servant, like a government official or to lesser extent notary public, can deny service to someone based on their personal beliefs is problematic and certainly something that should be reported on.
They’re doing this to tee up a challenge to Obergefell.
“real shitty”
does that mean it doesn’t affect you so fuck it who cares ? Because we did that in the USA for centuries and fuck that. It was real shittier.
does that mean it doesn’t affect you so fuck it who cares ?
No
Sure, but is issuing a marriage license “solemnizing” the marriage?
The real issue here is that public employees are allowed to bestow different services on different members of the public just based on how they feel. In a Good Old Boys jurisdiction, this could in practice outlaw gay marriage because all it takes is a consistent hiring practice to only get the “right kind” of clerk who won’t issue gay marriage licenses, and it becomes impossible to get one. That can happen in significant percentages of jurisdictions.
Sure, it violates equal protection Constitutional rights, but somehow I think this Supreme Court would find that First Amendment “right to express religious bigotry” wins if those are in conflict.
Sure, but is issuing a marriage license “solemnizing” the marriage?
No. The County Clerk’s office issues marriage licenses before the marriage is solemnized, and the officiant who solemnizes the marriage then turns the license back in, completed.
Basically you get issued the license to permit the marriage, someone accepts that paperwork and solemnizes the marriage (usually in some variety of ceremony, as befits your cultural and religious preferences), then that person (the officiant) completes the license and submits it back to the state to inform them it’s been done.
The Tennessee law in question essentially says that just because someone is allowed to officiate a marriage in Tennessee doesn’t mean they are required to if they have some issue with the pairing. AKA you can’t force a preacher from a decidedly anti-LGBT church to marry you just because they are a preacher.
Sure, it violates equal protection Constitutional rights,
Does it? It’s not a state employee performing their job function that’s given this leeway. The County Clerk is still required to issue the marriage license and is still required to accept and process completed ones, even if they disagree with those pairings.
It’s the person performing the wedding that is given leeway to decide who they are willing to marry, and the options there are broad enough that it doesn’t meaningfully restrict you (there are about 102,000 notaries public as well as an assortment of current and former elected officials and literally any clergy of any faith).
literally any clergy of any faith
That might count, though FSM is often in a grey area because it’s usually primarily a satire of religion rather than claiming to actually be one. The list of who can solemnize marriage in Tennessee is here:
https://www.nashville.gov/departments/county-clerk/marriage-license/who-can-solemnize
Clergy mostly fall under:
All regular ministers, preachers, pastors, priests, rabbis and other religious leaders of every religious belief, more than eighteen (18) years of age, having the care of souls
Military and law enforcement chaplains have their own items in the list, further down. Apparently they don’t count as “regular” clergy?
Wait… aren’t you people the same one’s telling everyone they can’t tell you what to do with your body, but here you want to demand someone give up their choice? If one person refuses, move on to the next. A lot of you don’t understand the word freedom, or hypocrite.
Nobody should have the right to infringe upon others’ rights. Look up the paradox of tolerance.
it’s not infringing though. they aren’t saying you can’t, they are saying they won’t.
So, if an Amish person decided to work at the DMV, they should be able to refuse driver’s licenses to everyone? It’s against their beliefs, after all. (I don’t know if it technically is, but play along, for the sake of argument.) Or… Should they maybe just not have that job, since it’s a matter of what is legally required to do something? Whether it’s 1% or 100% of the population, it’s their beliefs that are more important, right?
Let’s say it’s my religion that I think you should not be allowed to drive because I don’t like you. Now let’s say I work at the DMV and you walk up, should I be allowed to deny you a license because it’s my religion?
An officiant isn’t a government entity.
I’ll go to the next clerk.
And if it’s a one-horse town and there’s no alternative clerk?
Did you read the article? it’s not the clerk that this relates to it’s the officiant. so first of all your example it total bullshit stickman argument. Second, anyone with an internet connection can become ‘ordained’ and eligible to be an officiant in a wedding. I know this because I have done it myself, and my coworker sitting next to me does this OFTEN. Third there is no “gotcha” here. You’re simply mad because people are being given freedom to choose.
Is it “freedom to choose” when a restaurant tells black customers “we don’t serve your kind”?
For a business to discriminate in many parts of the US, there may be only 1 bakery, or bank, or car rental place, etc. Some places are small, you can’t just “go to someone else” when you only have One option. Almost all business are considered “places of public accommodation”.
For government to discriminate we have the same issue. Many offices have very few employees in MOST of the US. Only large metropolitan cities have, almost adequate, staff. There are not 100 court clerks in Podunk Alabama, or Nowhere Nevada. These places probably have 1 clerk doing multiple jobs.
If you own a business, or work in a government job, you serve the public. That means every nice person, and every freak you hate. This ain’t no hamburger at Burger King, you don’t get to “have it your way”.
The most terrifying aspect is that it isn’t just gay marriage at stake here - Interracial marriages, atheist marriages, inter-abled marriages… ALL marriages are at risk if a person you’ve never met won’t sign a piece of paper.
I’m trans, that’s been the case for me… my entire gender identity at one point hinged on me making empty legal threats I had no way to back up to gaslight people at the DMV to sign off on something that I already had enough legal documentation to get signed off on.
There was a time when I was federally Female and in my state Male.
Thank God the bitch behind the register who kept using “It” and “They” to refer to me didn’t call my bluff about “Coming back with my Lawyer”… soon as I said that, she clammed up, used the correct pronouns and gave me an F on the gender marker.
Fucking hells they called you “it”?! I am really sorry you had to experience that. Where I am she would be lucky to keep her job.
This was back in 2012/2011 the world’s changed a lot since then, today, the paperwork would likely be enough unless I was in an insanely red county
That’s what’s sort of mind boggling about all of this. Society has already decided to support LGBT rights. Republicans are just reopening a war that’s already been lost.
Personally I think marriages should only be allowed if both people own a domestic vehicle.
Do horses count?
Can you fuck the pope bareback in the woods?
Not if it’s Arabian.
You just banned anyone in NYC from getting married
Do they drive imports?
No one drives, there’s too much traffic
Just buy one to park, I hear spots are cheap there.
Parking spots have a higher income than most residents
Really?
Parking is expensive in New York City?
You learn something everyday.
It’s crazy how “No one drives” and “there’s too much traffic” can be a part of the same sentence, and still be correct.
/s? I’m guessing so, but you can never be sure out here lol.
If not /s, then why?
My grandma was driving a civic when she drunkenly drove into a tree.
Wouldn’t want any of them horrible poor people to have a shot at happiness
I just really hate KIAs.
It’s okay, it’s mutual, the KIAs hate you right back
Find one who refuses to marry Republicans, or whites, or straight couples and watch the bitching fly.
Be funnier if alot went along with it.
Hey I remember you, any luck on that feeding Taylor Swift Taco Bell to turn your wife bisexual thing?
Not yet, not for lack of trying.
Saying that, she’s flying out for a “girls weekend” and her friend is hot and slutty, and there will be wine.
I can hope
Keep reaching for TayTay’s vajayjay, my friend.
Moonies do have a religious argument against solemnizing same race marriages. They won’t, and they’re a cult, but they are the only religion to my knowledge to prioritize interracial marriage
Very well. Despite having no power to perform a wedding and certainly not in a state I have only been to one time in my life I am officially declaring that I will not marry a straight couple. It umm goes against my religion. The first church of anidiotsayswhat.
Your love Tennessee, your move
Interracial marriage is safe until Justice Thomas hits a rough spot in his marriage.
I REFUSE to sign off on Republican Marriages!
You should actually try to get the job and do just that
Anyone can sign up to be a minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and legally perform marriages. I did and have. I don’t know why you’d do it if your goal is to just not marry people, though.
Most of the time a LEGAL marriage has nothing to do with a church/minister/religion at all. It’s 100% a ‘state’ thing for filing of taxes, courtroom protections, power of attorney etc. Getting married in a church doesn’t grant any of those things. Having a piece of paper from your ‘state’ is what makes it legal in the government’s eyes. If the government won’t sign off, you’re not LEGALLY married, just socially.
In this case to make them repeal this idiocy by making it backfire on them. Malicious compliance
Specifically though to give the asshats that did this a taste of their own medicine
I think we should get rid of marriages entirely. It’s bad, complicated law, and the people getting into it often don’t understand it. Plus religion sucks ass. There has to be a better way to share assets and custody and taxes.
Not a huge concern but I do fear polygamist taking advantage. That’s not to say polygamy is inherently bad. Just from what I know of polygamy it’s usually patriarchal and used to prey on vulnerable women.
a monogamist can do that too
I’m friends with multiple women and non-binary folks who are in poly relationships, are very much not being preyed upon, and actively hate anything “patriarchal”.
Irl the only people I know in poly are men in their 30s dating multiple teenagers 🤷♂️
Jesus with what kind of people do you hang out
I used to be involved in the “kink community” - I saw this at dungeons. Largest age gap I saw was a 19 year old with a guy in his 60s. Very normal in poly/kink communities for married middle age men to sleep with/do “kink” with college students.
I threw this out to an atheist I know who performs secular weddings. If it was legal and you knew that everyone was consenting adults and also knew no one was being pressured would you perform a poly wedding?
He said he would hesitate and really verify everyone was on the same page but would.
Does he do that with monogamous couples too? Bc vulnerable people are preyed upon all the time in those relationships as well.
I didn’t ask and don’t want to speak for him.
How would you handle sponsorship for immigration?
Looks like they remembered that three new conservative Supreme Court justices had been added, and figured it was time to start chipping away at gay marriage.
And…This is what happens when the Supreme Court decides stare decisis is optional. If the Court doesn’t respect prior decisions, be prepared for every single issue to be re-litigated after members are added to or leave the Court.
Congress should just pass a law to allow online marriage services so someone in a progressive can marry anyone who needs to get married in a shithole state.
Make all federal recognition of marriage based on a federal license.
I can re-register my car, re-issue my license, change or verify my voter info online, even all the gods hope file my taxes online cheaply(cough free) these days. I dont see why two consenting adults who both file the info shouldn’t be able to… but then minds would explode. I mean we recently found out that alabama thinks that eggs are actual humans, which opens so many food based questions I’ll stop going.
Fucking SCOTUS bait. This is to overturn Hodges
In case anyone else was wondering, you might know this case better as Obergefell (since SCOTUS cases are typically informally called by the plaintiff’s name).
And Loving v. Virginia is next.
Thomas is going to be all in on overturning Loving v. Virginia.
The act of Clarence Thomas voting to overturn Loving will be America’s pinnacle act of irony. Nothing will top it.
I can imagine him literally writing in his concurrence: “It is time to pull the ladder up behind us.”
My understanding is that Thomas wants to end Loving and allow bans on interracial marriage because he wants to expose how racist America is and to radicalize black Americans into separatism.
Like the goal is to show black Americans that racist whites run the country and that they will prevent you from marrying other races because they hate you and consider you to be The Other. And it is impossible to change their minds on this. Which is why the Constitution and caselaw cannot protect us. Instead, we need to self-segregate away from whites and form our own communities away from them. Similar to the Amish or the hasidic Jewish neighborhoods in NYC.
Thomas in some ways has more in common with Marcus Garvey than Ronald Reagan. It’s just an incredibly cruel and largely contradictory version of Garvey’s racial separatism
Very creative and all but… You do know about his wife, right?
The white lady who helped plan the insurrection?
Yeah, she isn’t an issue with any of this. His point is that if it wasn’t for SCOTUS then interracial marriage would still be banned. And he wants to make that true so that others are radicalized by it.
Him being deprived of his own marriage would just be seen by him as effective additional propaganda - would show that no matter how high black people climb in society, whites will still destroy their lives. Which would help show that integration is an impossibility, which is his goal
I’ve been predicting it for years that that’s what will happen
I think we non-Americans never hear names of these states in postive context.
In general, the cities in red states are very progressive. New Orleans and Miami are two of the least small-c conservative cities you’ll find in the U.S., more akin to San Francisco than a place like Boston. (Boston has amazing universities and is progressive in policy but it was founded by puritans and isn’t exactly known for it’s late night parties and festivals.)
By contrast, more Californians voted for Trump than Texans. It’s mostly an urban/rural divide at this point and whether your state government is a horror show or not depends on whether your cities are large enough to create a majority after districts are drawn.
Also, there’s a lot of outrageous bills introduced by one state rep that will never get a vote. But they know they’ll result in clickbait articles and help them gain notoriety.
The people are friendly during the day, the food tastes good, the natural beauty is something else, and if your car breaks down chances are someone young will fix it for free someone old will give you a ride into town plus most of them have a 3rd worlder work ethic that allows them to build in temperatures that should kill you.
At the same time southern rage is a real plus scary thing and none of them are that far from lynching.
and if your car breaks down chances are someone young will fix it for free someone old will give you a ride into town
If you pass as white.
It’s a real shame, because there is so much non-shit in these places too. As someone from one of these states (Ohio), it makes me sad to see my home turned into a punchline and a cautionary tale because of what the extremists have done. Sometimes it feels like we’ve been abandoned :(
Like your close neighbor WV, just take pride in not being Mississippi.
We Americans don’t either.
That’s an astute observation.
TN is home not only to a motivated republican political class bent on ensuring their continued role overseeing the state’s people and determining what access to medical care should be available, but also to the Country Music Hall of Fame and to Jack Daniels Distillery. The latter is interesting and getting there takes you through beautiful country, but you should know it’s located in a “dry county” before you go and their products can’t be sold there.
TN is also the last state I’m aware of where fire departments were in recent years permitted to respond only to protect neighboring property rather than to protect the property which was actually on fire; but had not paid its subscription service
Well, that last doesn’t exactly cast it in a positive light, either. But that’s life in a red state for ya, there’s a whole lot of gorgeous country that is (politically) painted bright red, unfortunately. While I’ve little need to travel presently, there aren’t many southern states I’d go out of my way to spend money in, if I could help it.
They yearn to be the first christofacist state. They have some competition with Alabama raising their game with embryos
Thankfully, not everyone around here is a bigot. My officiator was an employee at the DMV who was very happy to be a part of my gay wedding in the DMV parking lot. Three years this August.
In before “you need to be licensed to officiate in AL” and “our licensing board can refuse to license on moral grounds”.
What’s done in secret brings public shame. Those legislators are a disgrace.
Agreed. Unfortunately, the Tennessee House of Reps have been making an ass of themselves for quite some time and it may not change any time soon. Though one can hope voters start doing the right thing and ousting these conniving bigots.