Project 2025’s 180-Day Playbook is a remarkably detailed guide to turning the United States into a fascist’s paradise.
Between Trump installing 3 Supreme Court Justices, having his SC cronies overturn and I quote “SETTLED LAW” on Roe V. Wade and PP V. Casey, giving Putin access to one or plural NOC lists, withholding military aid to Ukraine because he knew that Putin was going to launch a full scale invasion, divulging classified info to Russian diplomats in the White House, asking Russian hackers to hack Hilary’s campaign, are the American people angry yet?
None of us is ready to take action without the mob to shield us with relative anonymity and numbers. A great deal of the government’s effect in our lives is to disconnect us from each other and give us the impression we depend on it instead. It is quite a persuasive fallacy.
But yes, we’re angry, we’re just kept in a perpetual state of frustrated will.
are the American people angry yet?
Yes. But only about illegal immigration.
Funny how the whole ‘Make America Great Again’ helped only the rich. And the country that was aided the most was Russia with this movement.
So we’ll just vote them out of office.
Yeah, we did that and there was an insurrection… Do you think if they get voted in this time and then lose next round that they will leave peacefully?
After they fucked everything up? They never should have made it into office in the first place.
starting next january
¿??? Thsi started like, 10 years ago!
More like 50. They wrote their playbook in the 1970s, and have finally started seeing the fruits of their labor. If we can shut them down hard in this election, and the midterms, and the next election, the GOP may finally die. That doesn’t mean these people will stop trying to take control. They brainwash their kids into being true believers. This isn’t politics to them, it’s a holy war.
I appreciate the positivity. With all the evil this party keeps perpetrating, things keep on looking so bleak. However, if one then looks at how the party is basically dead in some US states and dying in most of the rest, it does make it look like we may still be able to save America from this traitorous scum. The people that fell victim to their lies and manipulation can be put back on track and stop feeling pointlessly angry for reasons they don’t quite understand, and start having self-worth and help this country prosper again.
I want to die. I just want to live.
If any state decides to do this, then it deserves to suffer a brain drain of LBGTQ people and allies who will gladly take their immeasurable skills and talents elsewhere. In short, doing something like this is a good way to ensure the death of one’s state.
However, the “I am moving to another state” or whatever tactic is shortsighted, and not everyone can afford it. The better tactic is to organize political action, protest and VOTE Democrat. The only political party in any meaningful position to favor LGBT+ rights is the Democrats.
Yeah but why do WE always have to move far away. Expensive, tons of bother , and news flash, we’re not all super geniuses, some of us are just fry cooks. Queer janitors deserve freedom from the shitstains of humanity too
I ran away and was better for it. I’d have self deleted if I had to remain in the shitstain place I was born in. You have to do what you have to do and usually that means finding a safe place far away from angry people.
I’m really, really glad you ran away & survived to tell the tale. On your worst days, you remember that you took care of yourself like that, yeah?💪✌️🫶
That’s their plan. They want to cement minority rule by consolidating Democrats into fewer states so they will always win the electoral college. Only having hateful idiots in their state is a pro for them, not a con. It gives them more power.
Good point! I am seriously considering moving to a swing state.
If you can hack it. My wife is trans and we live in a swing state, the stress of the ruling class playing with her human rights for points is real
Moving to another state is more than just affordability anyway. People shouldn’t have to give up their homes and everything they’ve known. So many states with far right legislatures have a gerrymandered to hell population that’s 45% very liberal. Half of the population is just being completely disregarded and considered subhuman.
And the last thing we should do is bunch ourselves up in one spot, or even in one State. That’s just doing their work for them. all they’d have to do if we moved to one State or one general area is to build walls around it. They’d follow Israel’s example and keep us all in one spot, genociding us through attrition. Cut us off from food and utilities, blockade our ports so supplies from other countries can’t get in, cut us off from communications so we can’t tell nobody what’s going on, and watch from the top of their walls as we die.
I’m in a red state; so far my healthcare has been denied and the new censorship laws targeting education are making me realize I need to flee if at all possible. It will take a lot of time, money, and effort to move, but the writing is on the wall.
deleted by creator
I have gotten a ban for reporting very obvious right wing trolls flying under the thinnest veneer of “leftist” ideology. It’s pretty clear that this is a top down issue on certain instances
I address those people with “Fuck Putin.”
Please do not take this as a rejection of the necessity to fuck that bastard, but these people most likely have no connection to him. They are your own, homegrown problem that you need to deal with. And given the numbers, in a non-violent way, unless you really are into civil wars.
Whatever you say, Ivan. Dasvidaniya.
“Fascists gonna fascist” is hardly Russian propaganda. Russia had certainly played a part but it’s foolish to imagine they bear the majority of the responsibility for what’s happening now. Homegrown fascists were putting the pieces in place long before Russia (or the Soviet Union) had an effective propaganda program.
You got my name wrong, but that is ok. It was not Putin who voted for Trump, and not him who keeps supporting him even now. Though Putin must feel really good about them, I am sure. Anyway, keep daydreaming your country into collapse if you like. This empire must also end, as all of them.
“Fascists gonna fascist” is hardly Russian propaganda. Russia had certainly played a part but it’s foolish to imagine they bear the majority of the responsibility for what’s happening now. Homegrown fascists were putting the pieces in place long before Russia (or the Soviet Union) had an effective propaganda program.
Lol have you seen hexbear recently? They are outright rooting for Russia to steamroll Ukraine. They don’t even hide it. The whole thing is so obviously a (very stupid) Russian psyop it’s honestly a bit shocking more people can’t see it plainly.
Nope, i have the whole instance blocked - enough shit in my life without them. It is actually quite amusing how the hard right ppl in Russia and the US are somehow gravitating to each other. Given the fact that they also hate each other for being from the enemy states (they always have very strong beliefs on the subject of who is the enemy), it is puzzling how they can voluntarily be so close in other aspects.
Sure, right wings are way way worse, yes, don’t vote for Trump, vote for (probably) Biden
But don’t fall in the trap where you just block anyone that disagrees, or you’ll find yourself becoming that which you hate, just on the other side.
Just because Biden isn’t as bad as trump, it’s a VERY low bad to cross and there is plenty to criticize. Still vote for Biden, obviously, but that doesn’t mean he should get a free pass
Jesus fuck, no one is saying that.
Yep. I’ve had multiple people suggest that Biden would be just as bad when it came to the rights of queer people. The sad thing is, some people get convinced by that.
Some people really will believe anything about someone they don’t like. Like I’m not a Biden fan, but he has been solidly ok for a US President
He’s sure as hell better than the alternative on offer.
Exactly. I can hold my breath and vote for a candidate I don’t like if his opponent is a fascist. Especially one so brazen.
We didn’t get here by fascists holding their vote unless the right went right enough. They spread their ideology and encouraged people to see it as bit enough of a problem to abandon their single issue while indoctrinating enough people into their camp to gain the ability to primary in sufficiently fascist candidates.
We on the far left need to become a dependable voting block that is worth courting then start winning primaries.
We didn’t get here by fascists holding their vote unless the right went right enough.
That is a very good point I plan on using in the future.
Glad to help. My wife and I have been discussing how we got here lately and I think that’s an important discussion for the left to have. While we were arguing the far right gerrymandered half the country and took control of their party.
Tactics are cause agnostic. It’s a valuable lesson to learn for two reasons: your enemies will steal any tactic you use on them and you can steal any tactic they use too. Some tactics don’t work for some causes, you can’t manipulate fear and xenophobia to create a diverse society of equality and acceptance. But we can primary the shit out of anyone unwilling to deal with climate change or who isn’t fully in favor of an explicit right to privacy and bodily autonomy. We can have a left wing version of the tea party.
Someone just earlier today told me that Biden and Trump’s policies were exactly the same except maybe on abortion. They 100% believe that. I don’t know if they’re stupid, ignorant, or evil.
These P25 people are just so…hateful. Carrying all that hate seems like it would not be fun.
Or maybe they are just trying to scare you and tell you what will get you to vote Democrat.
Aren’t you the guy that thinks America isn’t Capitalist? Why would anyone care what you think if you live in an alternate reality?
America is not capitalism, and I live in the reality that has the facts in it.
America is one of the most Capitalistic states on the planet. You deny reality by denying the fact of this.
We are apparently in the ballpark of 25th in the world in economic freedom, so top quartile isnt bad…
The EFI is from one of the most batshit, far-right think tanks imaginable, the heritage foundation, bought and owned by Capitalists.
Cool, what does your ranking put the US at?
What do you consider “Economic Freedom?”
Except the GOP has already started doing those things… It’s not like this is coming out of nowhere. I hate the DNC but hate facism a whole lot more so the choice is clear.
You guys interpret anything the GOP does that is in line with what they believe coming for rights, when it could be something entirely different. Its all just fearmongering.
Did you even read the article? This is literally their playbook.
And its all exaggerated or misleading.
You’re saying that a document that they literally wrote is exaggerated or misleading and is actually just fear mongering by Democrats?
You’re an idiot.
You’re an idiot.
Nice work, you used the correct your!
You guys who? I used to vote Republican… I’m an independent voter who wants a political reform of ranked choice voting, removing the 2 party system, etc… I only vote Democrat now because the GOP shoved their foot so far up their ass showing their true colors.
The GOP went full orange cult. They’re now hell bent on taking rights away and decide to vote against anything positive for their constituents as long as it is under the name of opposing democrats. They used to be the party of small government. Now they want to control everything and remove only regulations that ‘stop profit.’ They’re not even close to being the same party they used to be.
The GOP never was small government. The reason trump exists is because the left side has gone crazy. And yes, you would be included in “you guys”.
I didn’t know the left did all this:
-Plotted to kidnap a governor.
-Committed an insurrection.
-Threw away a pandemic response plan because they thought it would hurt big cities more than rural areas.
-Let businesses take PPP loans when they didn’t need it and not hold business accountable for what they did with those funds.
-Block student loan forgiveness saying it’s too much money to spend (very hypocritical based on their PPP loans stance).
-Put policies in place to make voting harder.
-Reversed Roe v Wade to let the states decide. Then when a state votes in favor of abortion, they don’t want to honor the people’s decision.
-Trying to stop legalization of marijuana (even when it’s put to a state vote) despite it being overwhelmingly favored by both parties.
-Banning/preventing life saving medical care (example ectopic pregnancies).
-Blame gun violence on mental health but then vote against mental health programs…
-Ignore experts in fields of science and education because it goes against their agenda.
-Plead to let the people decide on a new supreme court judge at the end of a presidential term (i.e. let the next president appoint the judge), only to not do the same when they hold office.
-Have Nazis on their side…
-Are in favor of gerrymandering (an unfair political strategy)
Oh wait, all that wasn’t the left…
To say the left has gone crazy with the current state of affairs is blatantly ignorant. And to cast a wide net on anyone who opposes what you think is right is also extremely dangerous and akin to facism. I don’t think every Republican is out of touch or crazy. I think they have many valid concerns. What I disagree with is the majority of Republican politicians. There are actually a few Republican politicians I do like just like there a ton of Democrat politicians I don’t like. It’s the direction the Republican party is going in regards to policies that I disagree with.
And the right literally have stated they are in favor of smaller federal/national government and that states should have more power (hence a smaller government…)
I like how you make this long list, and a bunch of them are lies, misleading or a normal thing they both do. Dude, the left is better at marketing, and they have convinced you of things that are not true. I am not a republican, but if you drill down on most of those, they are more right.
Which are lies? I’d be happy to present sources. I mean, if the left’s “marketing” is wanting to help others, yeah, that’s pretty good marketing. I personally like helping others which is why I lean left I guess…
What have they convinced me of that’s not true? Please enlighten me. I do like debating and am open to having my mind changed (I did consider myself a Republican for the majority of my life after all).
Are you fucking dense? They are telling you what they will do just like they overturned roe v wade. Gtfo with your fascist supporting garbage.
I am very dense, and it hurts my feeling to have you point it out :(
Every election I ask myself can these choices even get worse (as in presidential candidates). My question is always answered exactly 4 years later with an unequivocal “yes.”
In January they’re going to be too busy trying to steal another election for trump
I remember when republicans were about less government. Pepperidge farms remembers….
I remember when republicans were about less government.
They never really were. They’ve always been the party of corporate cronyism, with “less government” only ever applying to institutions from which they couldn’t generate profit.
Small government has only ever meant minimal regulation. It means nothing when it comes to civil rights or liberties.
I wish it meant minimal regulation.
But set aside abortion and immigration. I’m seeing some crazy efforts to regulate the solar and wind energy industries. I’m seeing efforts to restrict how municipal governments can operate education and transportation infrastructure. In Austin TX, the state government threatened to take over the municipal police department. In Houston TX, they removed the Independent School District and installed their own flacks. Texas law prohibits state agencies and political subdivisions (“Governmental Entities”) from contracting with businesses that boycott energy companies, discriminate against firearm entities or associations, or boycott Israel, which has an enormous impact on the statewide financial system.
So, I’m seeing lots of statewide regulation.
I don’t think they ever truly were. They’ve always supported the expansion of the military and police, having shit loads of foreign military bases, controlling women, controlling the LGBTQ+. The only way they could ever be considered to be wanting less government is in the form of their laissez-faire, pro-privitization economic policy, which just lets corporations do whatever the hell they like. So all it is, is trading one form of control to another. Instead of government controlling things, corporations control everything.
The GOP platform is, and always has been anti-freedom.
Unfortunately, many accept what they’re told at face value and don’t have the critical thinking skills to know the difference.
At the risk of sounding like Peterson (but reversed right to left), it’s always been about an in group that deserves to rule, and an out group that people punish. It’s that simple with them, why all the hypocrisy. It’s literally that simple. I’m a good guy, they’re bad, they disagree with me, that means they’re bad and should be punished. Zero sum game stuff
Absolutely agreed.
If he would only just extend his fingers when he gestured like that. Then it would be a lot clearer to more people what a nasty thing he is.
That must’ve been the ‘proud boys’ over there, to the RIGHT hand side.
It wouldn’t change a single thing, I’m pretty sure
Yeah but at least they will stop the genocide in Gaza, right?
Absolutely. By January of next year all the Palestinians should be dead and the genocide will be ended.
Never interrupt your enemy while they’re making a mistake. Carry on!
It may or may not be a mistake for them, but it will definitely cause a lot of suffering.
I think you need to see this meme: https://lemmy.world/post/12640726
Perfect time to teach Biden a lesson by not voting for him – or so I’ve been told by those with too much privilege and not enough brainpower.
What’s more realistic: Shaming everyone in the country until they vote for someone doing genocide, or telling Biden to stop facilitating a genocide?
Why not both?
deleted by creator
I’m not getting overly involved in this discussion as I’m tired of Lemmy devolving into endless arguments about this, but I just wanna take the opportunity to point out that the argument “Trump would be worse for Palestine” is a non argument. Joe Biden is a genocider. He advocated for genocide against Palestine and the Muslim nations surrounding Israel when he first entered politics. He has always held a genocidal disposition towards Palestinians, and he is currently arming, funding, and protecting the state of Israel in their efforts towards genocide. He is preventing the UN from forcing a ceasefire. He is literally, unequivocally, already doing the absolute worst he possibly could be in terms of Palestine. Trump wouldn’t be worse. Worse is literally not possible. The only thing that could be worse would be to invade Palestine with American forces, which Trump will absolutely not do as he has fascist military ambitions in Central America and is supported by a strong anti Semitic backing.
Stop downplaying Biden’s role in this. He is genocidal. He supports genocide in Palestine in literally every single way he possibly could. He is the reason this genocide is able to continue without being stopped. He is a zionist who believes Israel should conquer and colonize the entirety of the Middle East. He has long been a supporter of this.
You can say the million other reasons that voting for Trump is wrong. You categorically cannot say that he would be worse for Palestine. We will be very fortunate if Palestine does not collapse within the next 2 months into outright massive widespread famine. We could see literally over a million dead from starvation. They’re eating fucking grass. Stop excusing the actions of Joe Biden and start working to stop him. Dont pretend to care about genocide by slandering activists fighting for the lives of millions of people.
As opposed to you know doing literally anything to prevent genocide. How much food can they air drop? Enough for two million people? For how long? What about water? What about medical supplies? What about homes? What about electricity? What about healthcare workers? They gonna air drop a whole new country? Biden could stop it today. He could stop it right now. He could tell Israel no more money no more guns and join the UN in demanding a ceasefire. This is nothing. Optics.
I’m not responding to whatever your follow up is I’m just not doing this today. I hate that we live in the time-line where everyone, liberals conservatives progressives everyone all together, is fine with genocide because it’s Muslims this time.
So we’ve gone from ‘Trump would not be worse, worse literally isn’t possible’ to ‘Biden isn’t doing enough’. That was fast!
everyone, liberals conservatives progressives everyone all together, is fine with genocide because it’s Muslims this time
Said not a single person in this thread, except you.
Mhm. Yeah if you wanna re read the comment I’m responding to how is airlifting food going to solve a genocide
Brain time
I’m out I don’t have time for arguing with this shit for the millionth time on here.
deleted by creator
Biden did not advocate for genocide. He is absolutely NOT a “genocider,” nor did he advocate for genocide at any time in his political career.
Why are there multiple US aircraft carriers trying to break the blockade of the genocidal ethnostate happening in the red sea? Why is Biden trying to pass the fasicsts border bill so that he can get more ‘bipartisan’ funding for Israel?
On the subject of the genocidal ethnostates existence, Biden has said multiple times “if Israel did not exist, the US would have to create it to protect our interests in the region”. It’s because of cynical geopolitical calculus that Israel is supported to the end, even if that end is a pile of Palestinian corpses rivalling the brutality of the worlds worst dictators.
You are obviously a propagandist.
Nah he’s always been around and down with Israel colonization regime. I can’t find the link but early in his career he openly advocated for Israel invading neighboring nations to expand their borders.
Report me all you like.
deleted by creator
It’s videos of Joe Biden saying things. Way to click on it lmao
Its also very rich of you to call me an anti democracy troll when you’re literally defending a man who is actively supporting a colonizing regime
I never said not to vote for him, if you read my first comment, I said,
You can’t say Trump would be worse for Palestine. Palestine is undergoing genocide and is at risk for a massive famine and popluation collapse within months. This is already the worst possible situation
You have completely lost the plot. The election isn’t for 7 months.
Instead of convincing Biden to stop the genocide, which he can do right now, today, you’re spending your time trying to get people to say they’re gonna vote for Biden even if he continues facilitating genocide.
And that’s a major over simplification. Biden isn’t God he can’t snap his fingers and make Israel do what he wants, certainly not without putting the alliance between the US and Israel at risk … and it’s getting to be a dangerous time in the world when having friends is important.
Just today they announced the US would be air dropping aid to Gaza. It’s not like nothing is being done. I’d like more to be done, but yeah I’m voting for him either way because the alternative is Trump. I’m not going to pretend I’m not voting for him and the many other things he’s done and his policy objectives that I like because of the actions of another country that he’s supporting… Matching decades of US policy precedent.
Biden isn’t God he can’t snap his fingers and make Israel do what he wants
He can stop sending them the tools they’re using to carry out genocide. Ronald Reagan merely threatened to do it once and they came to heel.
the alliance between the US and Israel
Israel depends on the US for its existence. They will do what is required for financial, military, and diplomatic aid.
it’s getting to be a dangerous time in the world when having friends is important.
How friendly do we look when we’re facilitating a genocide, and bombing Yemen for trying to do something about it?
Dropping food does not make up for our client state machine gunning people trying to get food.
If the US really wanted to make friends, they’d oppose the existence of a zionist ethnostate.
https://www.legion.org/landingzone/260767/why-america-cares-about-israel’s-security
What you’re proposing would be a pretty radical shake up in the US approach to the middle east. The equivalent of telling all our current friends to fuck off and the people we’ve been saying fuck off to, hey do you want to be friends and let us place this critical military infrastructure in your country?
Some might even call it insane, because who is going to go for that?
Israel depends on the US but the US also depends on Israel. This isn’t a free lunch they’ve been given and they know it. They’ve also got the equivalent of Trump as their prime minister currently and I really don’t think he cares about any of that anymore than you do.
His country was attacked and his policy is scorched earth. He’s not going to stop if the US stops sending help. His “iron dome” will fall though and then he’s going to just throw everything he’s got at eliminating Palestine.
The only thing more dangerous than an angry nation is an angry nation with nothing to lose and a vendetta.
I don’t like any of this. However, for fuck sake Joe Biden is not out there in a cheerleading outfit yelling “go Israel, murder innocent civilians.” Things are rarely so simple as “just (don’t) do X.” Hell, that’s half the problem with Trump, he’ll just say shit like “well let’s just nuke the hurricane.” We end up with two problems a nuclear bomb and a hurricane.
If the Israel president was anyone but Netanyahu things might be different.
The equivalent of telling all our current friends to fuck off and the people we’ve been saying fuck off to
It is not. We took the same steps for Apartheid South Africa.
The only thing more dangerous than an angry nation is an angry nation with nothing to lose and a vendetta.
You know what’s worse than an angry nation? An angry nation with more weapons.
Joe Biden is not out there in a cheerleading outfit yelling “go Israel, murder innocent civilians.”
He is giving them the bombs they are using to carry out a genocide, there is no meaningful difference.
My vote has never made a difference. I still vote despite it being pointless.
They’re all over the fucking place here. It’s wild.
I do think theyre making perfect be the enemy of, well not exactly good, but in this case the better option, but Im not so sure theyre foreign ops. If you were running a campaign like that, wouldnt you want to concentrate your messaging on the places where the greatest number of people would be to see it, or at least a lot of people? Lemmy is certainly not immune to influence campaigns, Id bet it might even be more vulnerable than most given the lack of central control that might try to inhibit one, but its also currently incredibly small and obscure as far as social networks go. Would it really be considered worth the resources, to such a campaign, in its current state?
Would it really be considered worth the resources, to such a campaign, in its current state?
I think it’s more about the fact that this is the only place that doesn’t just ban them.
Agreed. They’re dangerous and privileged – it really doesn’t need to be more complicated than that.
Haha, yeah nothing to see here.
There was a point in 2016 when the bernouts started spouting on about how they were now voting for Trump. It’s the exact same situation. They will disingenuously demand something that is not feasible then they will show their true colors while acting like they didn’t intend on voting Trump from the get go.
For the love of god don’t fall for it again.
Still bitching about Bernie Sanders seven years later. And still not taking responsibility for the Democratic Party’s complete failure to increase turnout and fund local operations. It’s all someone else’s fault, always.
You losers are fucking unbelievable. And you wonder why people hate you so much.
Imagine voting for neolibs and having the gall to call progressives privileged. Progressives are younger and lower income but sure we’re the privileged ones. You don’t give a shit about anything except character assassinating anyone you see as an enemy. There’s never any honest attempt at engagement from you people.
What more privileged position is there than the one which favors purity over pragmatism?
Imagine advocating for actions that directly increase the risk of a Trump presidency.
Grow up.
Oh no, how dare I publicly criticize a political candidate in a democracy. It’s fucking crazy that you think you’re actually one of the good guys. This is exactly the kind of shit fascists say to shut down opposition.
Go take a nap.
They’re almost for certain foreign cointelpro.
Where do I collect my cheque?
Okay, so who should we vote for?
You’re saying in one breath that Trump and Biden are the same and in the next that voting for either one of them equally insane. Both of those things are plainly false.
Won’t make a difference means zero difference but Trump is literally the accelerationist choice.
You need to work on your comprehension. I never said they are the same. I said one is the product of the other.
isn’t going to make a meaningful change
My reading comprehension is just fine. You need an argument and it’s not the one that you’re getting.
Surely what the Democrats are doing is effective, and Christo fascism is now less of a threat than it was in 2016 and 2020. Right? They should clearly keep doing the same thing, it’s working super well!
Actually? 😂
The thing is: the US is not a well-functioning democracy. It currently tries to be to some extent, but it’s system especially at the national level is set up in a way that heavily biases power towards wealthy interests and rural states, both of which tend to favor conservative politics, and which mathematically garuntees only two parties can be viable at a time, with third parties merely providing a negative effect on whatever major party is closer to them. In a well designed democratic system, there’d be a much greater variety of political groups to support such that one that actually reasonably approximates a given person’s views may exist, and voting for those groups would have practical consequence. But, we don’t have that. Voting isn’t completely inconsequential, hence one should still do it, but in our current state it’s not enough to fix things by itself. But again, since it still does something even if not enough, it makes sense to try to get as much utility as possible out of it. At the moment, the only candidates that have any chance whatsoever of winning are a neoliberal and a fascist. Now, you can argue that the popularity of the fascist is a result of the failures of neoliberal policies and so voting for the candidate supporting those policies won’t stop the popularity of the fascist ones, and that could be true- but the fascist is just going to bring about the fascist policies even faster. “The candidate that can fix things” isn’t on the ballot of either major party right now, and the system mathematically garuntees that third parties are counterproductive at this level, so voting for meaningful change isn’t an option here.
I’m not saying one should give up pushing for meaningful change. I’m saying that at the moment, getting that change is going to require more than just voting, at least at the national level and especially in the presidential election. I do not plan on voting for Biden in the coming general election because I am under some illusion that he’s going to fix things. I plan on voting for him to stall for time. It isn’t exiting, it’s downright depressing, but on balance, it’s still more moral in my view to take that option than the fascistic one, or to do nothing at all.
Exactly… It’s almost like there’s no interest to change any of that from those who benefit and continuing to vote for them or support them will continue to perpetuate this inevitable spiral.
Sometimes the only winning move is not to play. - Joshua (John Wood), War Games, 1983
66% of americans make the “winning move” every election cycle.
Are you actually claiming that not voting will change things for the better?
Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.
Perhaps, but this is not one of those times.
Half the country DGAF about Gaza, but wants to remove your bodily autonomy, persecute minorities, and undermine all future elections.
They’re going to vote.
Cheque? lol don’t give yourself away too hard comrade.
I know this is doing to be fucking mind-blowing to you, bust some of us are dual nationals.
Or you could say that this issue and all the others mean so little to the Democratic Party that running anybody but Genocide Joe is off the table.
Genocide Joe
Jesus Christ. The US government has never given a single shit about the plight of the Palestinians.
The politicians just need a bit more time steeping before they’ll be ready to pretend that they supported Palestine all along. That is of course, if the public continues to like the cause.
Sure, but this is part of the process. If we don’t call them out, they assume that everything is peachy and the status quo is their mandate. I’ll admit it’s inflammatory and over the top, but it’s sort of catchy.
It is catchy, I’ll give you that.
Hi, it’s me, a Palestinian American, how about don’t use my people’s plight to justify letting the guy who wants to deport my ass for liking Knaffeh get into office?
I have enough issues without truck nuts McGee feeling re-emboldened to call me Sand Nigger and Towelhead.
I’m not the guy who wants Trump in office. I’m just the one who doesn’t want to vote for somebody who is repeatedly bypassing Congress to send weapons to literal fascists committing war crimes. That’s someone I can’t just hold my nose and vote for. His political career is over.
Why can’t we have any of the other people who ran in the 2020 Democratic primaries instead of Biden? This idea that it absolutely has to be Biden or else the DNC will let the country fall apart with Trump is so completely messed up.
Back in reality, the choices are a) vote for Biden, b) vote for Trump, and c) don’t vote. That’s it, those are your choices.
Just know that options b and c help Trump. You can bend and twist reality in any shape you want, but that is the actual effect of those choices.
So ask yourself, do you want Trump as president?
Why can’t we have any of the other people who ran in the 2020 Democratic primaries instead of Biden?
Which one of them did you canvas for?
I like how someone actually responded to your ridiculous question and you suddenly stop mouthing off to people. What a surprise. /s
You mean the comment posted 22 minutes ago when I wasn’t active here? My apologies for not being on Lemmy on your specific schedule.
Dean Phillips, but he has little chance against an incumbent who has the support of the Party leadership. In order for anyone to solidly beat him in the primaries, Biden would need to step down or the Party would need to acknowledge that the Clinton strategy of pushing their pick even if unpopular isn’t a safe one.
Voters tend to not show up for primaries against incumbents, but unenthusiastic or marginalized voters also tend to not show up to elections. Or put another way, an incumbent winning a primary isn’t indicative of a candidate winning an election. And I have no faith that Biden can win an election. That the DNC does is frightening and delusional.
Or are you saying that you wouldn’t vote for any Democratic candidate except Biden? What on earth does the party have to lose by having Biden step down?
What exactly did you do to help Dean Phillips’ campaign?
Or are you saying that you wouldn’t vote for any Democratic candidate except Biden? What on earth does the party have to lose by having Biden step down?
I’ll vote for whoever will stop Trump to prevent the ongoing queer genocide you apparently don’t care much about from getting worse and taking my daughter with it.
Who do you suggest I vote for if Biden appears to be the one most likely to save my daughter’s life?
lol, it’s nothing but moving goalposts with you, is it?
Your daughter’s life doesn’t mean enough to you to help me get an electable candidate through the primaries. When she asks you what you did to save her, you can say you argued with people on the internet. Sleep with that on your conscience.
Thank you so much, friend. I don’t think these “Genocide Joe” people understand what Trump has planned.
I wonder if they’re even aware that he’s already announced that he wouldn’t accept any Palestinian refugees?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-vows-expand-travel-ban-gaza-rcna120711
Or how about his plan to sacrifice the West Bank for a “Gaza Plus” without full statehood, where somehow Egypt gives up the Sainai Peninsula, all Palestinians, including Palestinians in the West Bank and Egypt, are forced to live there, and all right of return claims are nullified in perpetuity?
And then there’s Project 2025, where Trump and Republicans plan to make the U.S. a Christian theocracy. How do they think Muslim Americans will be treated?
But none of that matters because they can call Biden “Genocide Joe” and say not to vote for him because of it.
That sounds absolutely bonkers and I don’t want any of that to come to pass. But I can’t sleep with myself at night knowing that I’m voting for someone who is going out of his way to send weapons to facilitate an active genocide.
Instead of framing this as my failing for bringing about Trump because I won’t vote for continued genocide, try to see it in terms of your (the rhetorical “your”) failing by insisting that my choice be fixed between enabling an atrocious genocide or bringing about the end of our civilization. The solution is the obvious third choice, run somebody else beside Biden. He is too unpalatable to reliably beat Trump, so don’t run him.
Insisting that we hold our nose and vote for an unelectable candidate failed with Clinton (how we got Trump the first time) and she was just unpopular. Going ahead with the same demonstrably failed strategy with someone who is a direct party to a genocide is even more foolish.
I’m not going to vote for Biden unless he reins in Israel and stops facilitating war crimes there and it’s still going to be hard knowing what he has done. I would vote for any other Democrat that runs in his place. Insulting me because I won’t vote for a candidate who is a party to war crimes won’t work. If you need my vote, you can’t ask me to do what I’m telling you I won’t do. There’s nine months to figure out how to get the DNC to run another candidate in place of Biden. If you don’t want to risk Trump again, you should consider that option.
The solution is the obvious third choice, run somebody else beside Biden. He is too unpalatable to reliably beat Trump, so don’t run him.
Fine. Which one of those obvious third choices did you canvas for in your state?
I’m not going to vote for Biden unless he reins in Israel and stops facilitating war crimes there and it’s still going to be hard knowing what he has done.
Bold of you to do that in the face of a Palestinian person telling you that you’re in the wrong for that position. I guess you know what’s best for them.
Also interesting that you didn’t say that to them, but said it to me.
So you’re insisting that your role in this is really nothing more than to tell me I’m wrong for not voting for Biden and that I’m to blame for whatever comes? I’m not the only person who feels this way and I’m informing you that this strategy of yours is unduly dangerous. Digging in and trying to shame a couple of people on the internet isn’t mitigating the risk here.
That some self-proclaimed internet Palestinian says that they’re ok with somebody sending a fascist state the weapons that are being used to murder innocent people doesn’t change my view on things. If I tell you that I’m Palestinian too, will that change your mind?
Nope. A Palestinian person told you that you were wrong. The Palestinian you apparently don’t have the guts to talk to directly and are talking to me instead.
And now you are claiming they’re lying about being Palestinian to defend your paternalistic position that you know what’s best for Palestinians.
You also still haven’t told me who you canvassed for.
I’m voting for Biden to stave off Jerry Lewis Hitler, as I did last cycle and Clinton before.
That said, a lot of Biden enthusiasts need to stop with the “you also need to say you like him and his politics” crap.
No one should feel enthused about always getting wildly varying degrees of bad as the only choice, merely afraid. At this point we’re voting whether to keep the water pumps on as Titanic sinks to buy a little time instead of declaring the water at our waist “fake.”
Vote to keep the pumps on, sure, but it helps nothing to pretend our rigged capitalist hellscape, that neoliberals and fascists alike declare as “the only way,” isn’t eating the itself and us while it continues wrecking the planet for a few more short term cash grabs before the owners fly odd to their prepard haven’s con complete.
A vote for Biden is a vote for us to not add state sponsored scapegoating and persecution and ending bodily autonomy to our doom in motion like a cherry. Yes let’s do that.
…but don’t delude yourself into believing it’s any kind of salvation.
…but don’t delude yourself into believing it’s any kind of salvation
Why, are there very many evangelical democrats that need reminding?
I just want a functional fucking government
Functional government
Ｎｏｔ ａｖａｉｌａｂｌｅ ｉｎ ＵＳＡ
That said, a lot of Biden enthusiasts need to stop with the “you also need to say you like him and his politics” crap.
What’s great about this is that the lack of awareness and strategy practically guarantees that far left will never rule in the US.
What sucks about is that since vote margins are always razor thin, saying things like that might very well put Larry the Fascist Guy back to power.
No one is saying you have to be enthused. They’re saying you have to pretend to be enthused. Because the strategy of “I’m going to tell everyone I hate this guy so I don’t loose any cool points with my friends who the maturity of 16 year olds” is a losing one for you and minorities and LGBT people and women and basically everyone you’re fucking over.
That said, a lot of Biden enthusiasts need to stop with the “you also need to say you like him and his politics” crap.
That’s certainly not a significantly pervasive mindset – at least not around here. The general sentiment is “hold your nose and vote for him anyways”.
No, I’ve seen the critique that we must all be enthused to convince others to vote for him with how great he is.
I prefer for us to rise or fall honestly. Leave the lies to the politicians themselves. I advocate others vote for Biden not to make things better, but to keep the pace of things getting worse where they are instead of hitting the gas.
But I’ve been yelled at for not trying harder to sell the metaphorical Biden car like I need the commission.
I’m sure you’ve seen it, it’s just not happening in significant numbers. At least not around here.
AKA – you’re preaching to the choir.
It’s literally all over this thread and in most threads about Palestine. You’re lying.
… No it’s not
I guess being a Muslim and feeling pain when I see a dead baby is “privilege” nowadays. Have you considered the idea that for some people not funding a genocide is more important than anything else? You can’t keep bombing the middle east, say “orange man bad” and expect people to vote for you. I don’t give a shit at this point. I’ll vote for whoever’s running against a person who took a dime from AIPAC.
Fuck Putin, and his puppet Trump.
“I don’t like the guy who’s not cutting off funding to Israel because he thinks a soft touch is needed to talk them off the ledge, so I’m going to let the guy who handed them East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights back into office.”
That’s what fetishizers think any muslims or arabs (because they are not the same thing l3anhon’allah!!!) will do here and cite to justify letting “orange man” back into office.
I guess being a Muslim and feeling pain when I see a dead baby is “privilege” nowadays.
Weird guess, but no.
Privilege is knowing that not voting for Biden increases the risk of a Trump presidency, and making that choice anyways. The only way it isn’t is if you genuinely believe Trump would be better.
Orange man is bad. Of course he is.
Oh I didn’t say I’m not voting for Biden. Read again. I said I’m voting for whoever’s running against a person that took a dime from AIPAC. Fuck anyone who thinks what’s going on in Palestine is acceptable. Things wouldn’t have come to this point if morons like you actually spoke up and protested against Biden instead of calling people idiots for not voting for him.
If you’re voting for Biden, then you’re pretty clearly not the type of person I’m calling privileged, right?
Things wouldn’t have come to this point if morons like you actually spoke up and protested against Biden
Don’t call me a moron. And don’t claim that I didn’t speak out against Biden. Be better than that.
Fuck off with your privilege bullshit. You don’t know any of the people you’re talking to. Straight up character assassination.
So childish.
I’ll vote for whoever’s running against a person who took a dime from AIPAC.
In other words, you’ll vote for someone who has zero chance of winning.
Why bother voting at all?
By the way, you might want to look up Project 2025 and Trump’s plan to turn the U.S. into a Christian theocracy. You’ll probably feel a lot more pain as a Muslim when it’s happening to you.
Have you considered the idea that for some people not funding a genocide is more important than anything else?
Do you really think orange stain isn’t going to start absolutely pouring money into Israel? If you think it’s bad now…
In the US we are currently stuck with a 2 party system, a vote for any third party candidate is a throwaway vote in a presidential election.
Actually, voting for a 3rd party is almost always a vote for Trump. The people talking about abstaining or voting 3rd party are overwhelmingly of progressive mindset.
The people talking about abstaining or voting 3rd party are overwhelmingly of progressive mindset.
so it’s not a vote for trump at all. in fact, he’s running on the republican ticket, so a vote for a so-called third party would be a vote against him.
Nope z that isn’t how math works. You make the incorrect assumption that those people would ok d vote for Democrats if they didn’t have a choice, which all dats shows is wrong.
A vote for a third party is equivalent to not voting. That’s a fucking fact z and I’m sick of you liars trump to bully people into voting for your corporate protofascist. It’s never worked and never will, but that won’t stop you from doing it because it’s so much easier than engaging someone and validating their concerns. A
Is this even English?
Perfect time for Democrats to nominate an 81 yo guy that most people think it’s too old to run. This election won’t even be close if someone other than Biden ran. His accomplishments don’t really matter in the face of his mortality.
Did you canvas for anyone else to challenge him in your state’s primary?
Because you had time.
You know nobody else stands a chance against an incumbent president in a primary unless the president drops out on their own, so that’s a moot point just for the sake of arguing.
So “this election won’t even be close if someone other than Biden ran” but it wasn’t worth trying to primary him?
Like I said, DNC and Biden himself needs to realize that he should step down, given that this is a very important election. If they don’t want to do that, there’s nothing anybody else can do about it. Your point is moot and you know it. Talk to Dean Phillips and ask him how his campaign is going. Being too idealistic just for the sake of argument doesn’t help anybody. Need to be more practical.
That’s a lot of words for “I didn’t try.”
Oh right, because individual citizens can beat the entire democratic party machine on their own. What a ridiculous fucking comment.
Behold! The beating, indifferent and apathetic heart of the American body politic!
That’s how grassroots democracy works. But it’s much easier to sit on your ass and berate people on the internet.
There are millions of people who will read the first half of your comment, think it’s a good idea and skip the rest. What have you done?
Or billions, even. Billions and billions. Good people, the best kind of people. I know them, personally.
