Despite President Biden's recent calls for a 6-week ceasefire amid the war between Israel and Gaza, leading progressive Sen. Bernie Sanders tells "Face the Nation" that "the United States of America cannot be complicit in this mass slaughter of children." "That should be clear: No more money to Netanyahu's war machine to kill Palestinian children," Sanders said.
You’re missing context. This is an election year in the US. Biden is running against Trump, who said Israel should "finish the problem” by continuing and expanding bombing of civilians. So, as bad of a choice it is, proponents of peace should vote, and vote Democrat. At least until we can reform this shitty Electoral College/2-party system we currently have…
At that point there won’t be a Gaza.
You’re using context to justify support for genocide.
Biden should stop supporting genocide.
Israel can then get their weapons and money from Russia or China, who have fantastic records on genocide.
As a bonus Israel can then give US military secrets to their new benefactor, giving them an edge in defeating western weapon systems deployed in Ukraine and Taiwan.
There is no easy solution here.
The fuk?
The fuk Israel gonna get their weapons from if Biden stops selling to them? I already told you.
Dumbest Lemmy user.
All those weapons that Israel has are western weapons. Meaning that Israel would have to buy new artillery, aircraft and mechanized units in order to use Russian/Chinese calibers and Launch Systems. Not to mention that politically Russia and China don’t remotely align with Israel and actively campaign and work against them. Nuance, like the other user said, would help you, but so would being quiet.
Yeah, Ukraine is turning its nose up at Bradleys, F-16s, and Patriot missiles. After all why change from their old Soviet and Warsaw pact systems?
And yeah, Russia and Israel are totally not aligned, which is why Russia and Israel never made deals to stop supplying each others enemies with weapons.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/russia-nixed-arms-sales-to-israels-enemies-at-its-request-pms-adviser-says/
Putin and Bibi are total enemies!
https://images.hamodia.com/hamod-uploads/2019/07/Huge-Campaign-Posters-Show-Netanyahu-Shaking-Hands-with-Trump-Putin-Modi-1024x683.jpg
Now of course Bibi walked some of this back after some US pressure, but that pressure is in the form of further aid and weapon sales.
Do you see the dilemma more clearly now?
Ukraine has a shit load of old Soviet era stuff. Of course they need supplies around that. They also keep asking for more F-16s and ammo for our weapons platforms we gave them. What does Ukraine and the weapons they use have to do with Israel?
Israel uses NATO standards for basically everything and the iron dome is effectively patriots. That’s all western tech with western specs. Russia and China would have to either create whole new missiles and calibers to fit, or they would have to buy older or brand new weapons systems and platforms which would take a decade plus to switch to.
Congrats on finding out how diplomacy works. Diplomacy isn’t a unit of measurement nor is it a spec. Which is what all those NATO spec weapons are that currently Israel is using.
Because Ukraine is accomplishing the switch and hybridization between weapon ecosystems under duress, whereas Israel will have time to do so. If Ukraine can rig Migs to fire western missiles, Israel can adapt S-400 to suit their needs.
It is not an idle threat when Bibi invites Putin over for tea, and it is not an impossibility for them to switch over.
Now, let’s say they do have difficulty switching over to Russian or Chinese weapons if the US cuts them off. You don’t think Iran or another of Israel’s neighbors won’t try to take advantage? Then what? How many people will die in that conflict? And if their backs are against the wall, how much restraint will Israel show before launching a nuke?
There are no easy answers here. Plenty of easy idealism though.
Good luck having a nuanced position that confronts geopolitical reality on social media. I love Bernie, and I agree with his position here, but he only has the luxury of having this position because he’s not president. Joe Biden is going to do whatever it takes to maintain an American presence in the Levant, and so would any other president. The consequences of turning Israel over to Russia or China would be calamitous–as in, the end of US hegemony–because we don’t have an alternative in the region.
It’s futile, let these very useful folks chant “Genocide Joe” and then put on their best shocked pikachu faces after Trump mysteriously wins. I don’t support genocide, but I also don’t support two rogue nuclear super powers actively stealing territory from their neighbors every 3-4 years while ACTIVELY pursuing genocide.
Like the solution to the trolley problem for these people is to deny the trolley even exists or that they are at the switch.
Oh in that case genocide is totally okay then. Disgusting logic.
Russia and China have backed Hamas.
Russia and China also back Israel. FirstTime.jpg?
have they even threatened to do something like that? i don’t think that would work out for them.
They have made veiled threats before:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-another-league-netanyahu-touts-friendship-with-putin-in-new-billboard/
In an ideal world nobody would sell Israel arms until they stop the genocide and begin a two state solution, but in reality Israel has options, options that are far worse than the status quo.
i think that’s bluster. in fact, i say “let them”. let them. i don’t want to be complicit in their genocide. let them beg putin.
Diplomacy and stability don’t run on embracing the unknown. There is a non-zero chance Russia will give Israel all the weapons it needs, there is Russian influence in Israel and Russian Jews hold significant sway in Israeli politics.
How much do you think Russia cares about genocide when they are actively committing one in Ukraine? Maybe think about how much Russia cared about how many civilians Assad has killed.
if we could regain our moral authority, i think we could stop a genocide.
Bruh Israel is already heavily Russian, it has become over run since the iron curtain fell with former soviet bloc members who fled to get a western passport at the first opportunity. Unsurprisingly many of their children are incredible racists, because their bloodline literally saved them from Russian destitution. Like if they actually thought Russia was worth something they wouldn’t even be in Israel.
Sounds like a tiny baby. Stop pretending you care about humanity.
You don’t need to be insulting just because you know your position on genocide is indefensible.
They aren’t missing the context. This is an anti-Biden movement, not a pro-Palestine movement.
They sure would look silly if Biden stopped supporting genocide, huh?
Ahh yes, as if calling beetlejuice, here is one of them now.
I want Biden to win. Continuing his support for genocide will cause him to lose.
Would you rather have genocide and Trump than no genocide and Biden?
This doesn’t even make sense.
You can’t fathom not supporting genocide?
I said this to you yesterday and I will say it again, if you have to pretend people support genocide to get your point across, you aren’t actually making a legitimate point.
I’m not going to pretend that Biden isn’t supporting genocide.
No matter how many bald assertions you make about me for saying the plain truth.
Nobody mentioned Trump. This is about Biden. It is so pathetic that this exact same argument comes out of the woodwork every single time someone rightfully criticizes Biden on this issue. The US is funding a genocide and all you people can do is wring your hands and bitch about how Trump is worse. Biden is the president, and mistakes he makes are on him.
There is no missing context. You are just trying to make this conversation about the election instead of about doing what is morally right and should be expected of any humane, democratic president.
Ah yes, handwave away important context by claiming there is no missing context. There are only two options in this matter. Tearing down option 1 only leaves option 2, which will be far worse for the people you pretend to care about.
Go back to your troll farm.
So by your logic when is the next time we’re allowed to criticise Biden? Won’t it be too late for Gaza by November? It’s basically already destroyed
&
Not sure why it’s so hard for you to believe I’m being genuine?