Where are the lemmy.ml commenters?!
Putin is garbage and I will celebrate the day he dies.
I’ve yet to encounter anyone defending Putin, but I’ve sure seen plenty of people try to twist criticisms of Ukraine and NATO’s involvement with it into accusations of being a Putin-loving Russian disinformation bot. At least we get to squabble like idiots over foreign policy we have no influence over rather than find common ground over the remaining 90% of politics we probably have in common (and also have no influence over).
Here’s one:
I don’t doubt that Putin defenders exist, though, just that they’re prominent enough to warrant near daily memes about how stupid tankies are ruining everything. Surely the bigger threat to the shared objectives of left wing politics is infighting.
I was just here to upvote the meme before I saw your broad generalization.
What did you do after you saw it?
he shided and farded so hard that he inked
That’s not a very nice generalization.
We apologise, SatansMaggotyCumFart
It is what it is.
Anarcho-NATOism is a hell of a drug.
I fucking hate tankies
Huh.
It took me a while to sort out that meme, then it suddenly hit me - I’ve not only succeeded in eliminating the tankies from my Lemmy experience, but have done so so effectively that I started to forget that they even exist.
At this point, the only people I see trying to defend Russia are a handful of angry right-wing morons who have bought in to the propaganda spread by Russia’s assets in the GOP, and they’re few and far between.
my lemmy main has the longest blocklist of any of my fedi accounts. it’s great.
My god I love this comment section. It’s the first non-pro-USSR interaction I’ve seen on Lemmy
Avoid lemmy.ml if you don’t like pro Russia shit lol.
Everyone I don’t like is a nazi Russian
Not at all.
For instance, I also don’t like petulant techbro libertarians with political views that are warped by their desperate, yearning need to try to compensate for their inferiority complexes.
why you have inferiority complex?
This is damned inspiring. Blocking all these tankie twits.
User block, activate! :-P
instance block, activated! :-p
Upvoting, but I do not admin my own instance, so can only block the instance as a personal user, which means e.g. that they can still mass-downvote me if they so choose. :-(
Also I can still view their comments everywhere, I just don’t receive a notification from them anymore if someone replies directly to me, and I could replace my individual per-community blocks with the one instance one for them all. It is nowhere close to “eliminating” them altogether, even though it does cut down on the aggravation a lot.
But I know what you mean, and yes I would like that! Do you know of any instances that blocks those big 3 Axis powers? I looked last week among all the most popular ones listed at that fediverse explorer site but could not find a single one that does. Even Kbin.social only blocks 2 of the 3 but not lemmy.ml…
Oh, lol. I thought you were talking in generalities on how to block tankies. I wasn’t being specific to you.
Plus their alts on other instances, b/c knowing that they have been blocked, some users seem to have decided to evade our intentions. “No means no” is a weakness, according to those for whom consent means little (or nothing), so terribly sadly, that many of us would rather choose the bear than that…:-( (/s but you know what I mean:-P)
The best possible peace scenario for our beloved world is to deploy Nato missiles on every russian border country ✌️ That worked well in Cuba.
“Defending” would imply that it’s not Ukrainians who are the ones dying in a ditch while they lose more ground every day on the way to inevitable defeat in absence of a peace deal. Neolibs have the most cringe internal hero monologue while they sentence other people’s children to die…
damn Russia really should have thought of the children before they started unprovoked invasion of a soverign nation with intent to conquest #3
the hell kind of abusive victim blaming mindset is this? “Clearly ukraine is in the wrong for defending themselves against an invading force”
Yeah, Russia’s bad and is clearly the aggressor. They’re also going to win eventually. Ukraine is their backyard, thus why Obama sheepishly just let them take what they did in 2014. So the question is how many Ukrainians you’re willing to throw into the meat grinder en route to a negotiated peace. Seems like “all of them” is the answer.
Russia might think they will win, but it will rather be NATO against Russia than Ukraine losing.
You know, every time this topic comes up I just sit back and remember how well appeasement worked last time. You remember, with that toothbrush mustache guy? Boy, I’m sure glad capitulating led to nothing happening after that!
Russia hasn’t lost on their home turf in 500+ years… Enjoy the winter, Napleon.
Yeah I’m sure the West is planning a massive land invasion of Russia in the middle of winter, you figured it out.
Good thing Ukraine isn’t their home turf
Lol you’re so dumb
You got me. I’ve been trying for years (presumably unsuccessfully) to hide it, but you nailed me. SAD.
Good thing Ukraine isn’t Russia, then, and that the war is happening in Ukraine. Afghanistan, ahoy!
Ukraine isn’t mountainous terrain that’s hard to navigate both on foot and with even modern aircraft. It isn’t a subsistence economy that has been at war for a thousand years. It isn’t home to people who made a life raiding into India for women and livestock, fierce mountain vikings, even before becoming the graveyard of empire as they cut their teeth on three world powers in a row, getting stronger with each they drove out, generation by generation. These are farmers and programmers and project managers, who are dying in trenches on a flat field as surely as the Flemmish before Germans in WWI, and yes, the line can hold forever, but it takes X lives every day to make that happen, and there’s no endgame where Russia gives in, because it needs the fresh water from the non-Crimea shit to hold Crimea, which has no rivers, and their whole Black Sea naval operation is out of there, and they’re not going to cede the whole Black Sea.
Ukraine isn’t mountainous terrain that’s hard to navigate both on foot and with even modern aircraft. It isn’t a subsistence economy that has been at war for a thousand years. It isn’t home to people who made a life raiding into India for women and livestock, fierce mountain vikings, even before becoming the graveyard of empire as they cut their teeth on three world powers in a row, getting stronger with each they drove out, generation by generation. These are farmers and programmers and project managers, who are dying in trenches on a flat field as surely as the Flemmish before Germans in WWI, and yes, the line can hold forever, but it takes X lives every day to make that happen, and there’s no endgame where Russia gives in, because it needs the fresh water from the non-Crimea shit to hold Crimea, which has no rivers, and their whole Black Sea naval operation is out of there, and they’re not going to cede the whole Black Sea.
What absolutely bizarre hagiography.
As long as Ukraine wants to defend themselves against Russia I support their choice to do so and wish my government would provide even more support for them to do so.
And this is why we never have any money for investing in domestic programs to improve anything. If it’s not Korea, it’s Vietnam, if not Vietnam, it’s Kosovo, if not Kosovo, it’s Iraq, if not Iraq it’s Afghanistan, if not Afghanistan, it’s Ukraine. Have you ever questioned why there’s always a new crisis that makes Raytheon execs rich, but mysteriously leaves nothing to spend on civilians here at home?
And this right here is an example of someone not knowing how their own government works.
You got me, there is no war machine. I’m making it up. Eisenhower was lying when he warned us about this.
Never said there wasn’t.
I’m just pointing out that you don’t even know how your own government works, that is, if you’re even American.
Have you ever questioned why there’s always a new crisis that makes Raytheon execs rich, but mysteriously leaves nothing to spend on civilians here at home?
Imagine thinking that’s why we don’t have well-funded social services.
In 2020, when corporations that had just received three years of outrageously large tax cuts and stock buybacks were frightened of losing revenue, the Repub government fabricated trillions of dollars in handouts to pass around with little to no oversight.
It is not the spending on Raytheon that is preventing spending on citizens at home. It is that half the country has oppositional defiant disorder about any service or policy that would help poor people.
Yes, all of these handouts to our ruling class are also why we can’t have nice things, but I’d argue engineering marvels that literally murder large numbers of human beings are worse than a direct handout. Maybe we just need welfare for Lockheed Martin. Also, if you want to get super technical about the economics, taxes in a fiat currency economy of our size is actually a purely inflation-management mechanism. There’s no dollar-to-dollar relationship between income and expenditure, really, so a tax cut isn’t really “spending” in the same way, you’re just egging on inflation by failing to remove dollars from the economy (not to be pro-tax cut, obviously inflation is bad and regressive taxation of its own, but its important not to play into the right’s misconceptions of how the economy works).
And this is why we never have any money for investing in domestic programs to improve anything. If it’s not Korea, it’s Vietnam, if not Vietnam, it’s Kosovo, if not Kosovo, it’s Iraq, if not Iraq it’s Afghanistan, if not Afghanistan, it’s Ukraine. Have you ever questioned why there’s always a new crisis that makes Raytheon execs rich, but mysteriously leaves nothing to spend on civilians here at home?
It’s absolutely not the reason lol. The reason you can’t invest in domestic programs like universal healthcare or post-secondary education financing reform is because half of your fellow Americans oppose it, and vote accordingly. Convincing others matters.
I don’t read that as saying Ukraine shouldn’t defend themselves, but rather it is saying Ukraine is defending the west, putting their lives at risk and doing the dying while the west otherwise sits comfortably at home.
I’m not sure that’s entirely fair, but it sure isn’t us putting our lives on the line for democracy like the Ukrainians are.
Yes, in some ways Ukraine is defending the West… proxy wars are nothing new.
HOWEVER, if Ukraine didn’t want to defend themselves and wished to preserve life, they would have rolled over, gotten rid of their president, and handed the country over to Putin by now. They’ve proven they are not above driving out their president and upper leadership by public demonstration, they have done it before specifically to get rid of a pro-Russian president and parliament prior to Putin’s invasion of Crimea. They chose this path for themselves.
Both Ukraine and the west understand Russia doesn’t stop there. Appeasement has never, ever worked with egotistical empire building dictators in the past before, and it will not work now. Just letting Russia have Ukraine would save lives, but inevitably cost more in the long run.
Russia did think of the children!
Well, they did think of the Ukrainian children they kidnapped and are selling off to Russian families. Not the ones they killed.
Go back to your cave, orc.
Thank you for demonstrating what simping for a fascist state looks like.
You don’t need to love Russia to perceive that they’re winning and were always going to win against a much smaller state right in their back yard. I guess you do need to disabuse yourself of your delusions of grandeur, though.
Rambo 3 is the counter to both Tankies and Liberals.
Imagine being 13 in 2002 and seeing this come up when they were playing Rambo 3 on TV
Imagine being old enough in 2002 to know the successor to the Mujaheddin was called the Northern Alliance who were our allies in opposition to the Taliban and Al Qaeda. But since the facts didn’t fit the narrative that we’re fighting the people the US put into power and also didn’t fit the racist narrative that “all those people over there are all the same.” Neither the left nor the right wanted to think about Afghanis having any kind of agency so failure in Afghanistan was inevitable.
Russia has messaging for useful idiots on the right and messaging for useful idiots on the left. To the right they’ll say stuff like “America should stay out of foreign wars”, “we should make Ukraine pay for the assistance”, “the price of oil will go up” blah blah. To the left it’s shit like “Ukraine are Nazis”, “America is perpetuating this war”, “NATO are the aggressors” blah blah
The goal either way is to sow division, doubt, demoralise, create instability, create distrust and sap European & US power’s resolve to support Ukraine. And also to devalue information with false, misleading and contradictory information. It’s not hard on social media to see how this shit spreads around with insincere actors pumping false news and misinfo into the feeds that gets picked up by the useful idiots.
cause a loss for the west is a win for the third world. its not russia that has been couping, invading and generally fucking with most of planet earth.
you can’t fuck us for a couple of centuries then expect us to be on your side, we will take a status quo thats less bad.
Congratulations, you have the most brain-dead take on this entire thread.
likewise. look up your own atrocities before accusing others.
You can’t “likewise”, they only called you out, it isn’t even a take.
what else can i say about such an ignorant take?
Ironic.
agreed.
Nice what aboutism. Not like russia did just as many atrocious things, but keep pretending. Just makes you look like a russian troll, not like a “third worlder”
Isn’t that what you’re exactly doing, but now flipping it on me?
nope. i’m happy to announce my country has commited no atrocities outside its own border.
we haven’t imposed our shit on anyone else, and we are slowly healing from it as far as yours will allow it.
nope. i’m happy to announce my country has commited no atrocities outside its own border.
Ha, damn you must be so far up your own ass you believe your countries propaganda.
There isn’t a single country in the world that didn’t commit atrocities at some point in history.
Please tell me I am wrong by stating your country.
did you even read what i wrote? thanks for teaching me the history of my own country.
maybe do this less and we wouldnt have this problem.
Op’s a tankie and I’m not defending him, but I’m pretty sure there’s some countries/cultures that haven’t done anything outside of their own borders. One example that I know of, unless I’m forgetting something, is Romania. Always been on the defense, never the aggressor, afaik. Pretty sure some island nations are the same. Maybe some African ones as well. Some native american and australian as well, I think.
Russia is currently extorting and corrupting African countries. Enjoy it.
not close to the extent europe still is. i will take an improvement, tyvm.
Well, it isn’t an improvement.
Unless you believe Imperialist Russia, which are known all over the world for their propaganda.
hahahahah look up the west’s influence all over the globe. look inside first.
The fuck planet are you on?
this one. study your own history, you have been continuously killing brown people nonstop for what? at least 50years now?
you have been continuously killing brown people nonstop for what? at least 50years now?
Would be more like 200 something, no? Since the inception of the nation, basically, right? Edit: actually, scratch that, it would be before the nation was even formed, as soon as the colonies were first beginning to be settled. I think before that they were generally too low on the totem pole and too weird as far as strange religious sects to go around and kill people, but I could be wrong.
I haven’t killed any people.
And Russia literally teamed up with the Nazis and only fought back because they were stupid enough to get betrayed. Russia has a pretty colorful history if you wanna get down to the nitty gritty of things.
you need to study some history then.
they literally defeated the nazis at great cost to themselves. buy yhey were socialist back them, different times.
Seems it is you that should study history. Russia fought the Nazis once Hitler turned on them.
The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany signed the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact in August 1939. It was publicly a non-aggression treaty, but it included a secret protocol in which eastern European countries were divided into spheres of interest.
From here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
you do realize this treaty failed, because nazis invaded them anyway and the soviet union defeated nazi germany?
understand the context in which you are saying this before equating the soviet union to modern russia.
understand the context in which you are saying this before equating the soviet union to modern russia.
Awfully similar if you ask me. ✔️Dictator then and now. ✔️Russia choosing to invade their neighbors instead of allying with Europe for the common good ✔️ Russia working secretly with their allies to carve up Eastern Europe
If it looks like an orc, and walks like an orc…
Every time you people equate the Russia Federation with the USSR, you’re telling on yourselves. The government completely changed, the current one destroyed the old one, and the only continuity is the location and the people. So if you equate the two, then it sounds to me what you’re really saying is that Russian skull shape or whatever makes them inherently inclined towards violence regardless what form of government they adopt. Which begs the question, what is your ultimate, you know, final solution for this apparently genetically inferior race?
Wtf are you even fucking on about? Who the fuck even hinted anything related to what you just posted.
How are the USSR’s actions relevant to the Russian Federation?
Wow, reading is hard.
Laughs in Georgia, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Moldova
laughs in every other country in the planet including mine. the entirety of africa and south america sends its regards.
what russia does pales in comparison. they don’t have that reach.
So that makes it okay
No, no, that’s just Defending Their Historical Interests, or whatever the fuck fascist simps wearing red say nowadays.
its not russia that has been couping, invading and generally fucking with most of planet earth.
lol
lol indeed
This is fucking accurate. I am concerned by the number of downvotes.
I know we all hate uhhh, nuanced takes, and I’m especially too much of a brainlet to really have a good take on global politics, but I think I can give a crack at it, going by the rest of the shit in this thread.
Generally, war is bad, because it kills the poor of a nation, the racial minorities which can get sent to the front lines, and the political radicals which can do outreach (leftist, or, also, leftist), who would attempt mutual aid in those circumstances. It’s a circumstance in which you can more easily justify any number of pretty horrible actions.
I think if I’m looking at the war with an ultra-cynical lens, as I think would befit global politics broadly, the united states isn’t taking an interest in ukraine so much because they’re some sacred ally, but because they see it as a way to drain russia of a bunch of money, keep the military industrial complex running, and do it while not sparking international incident and also while not expending any of their own troops.
I also don’t really know at what point this war is thought to end. If we give russia’s horrible oligarchic power structure more leeway, if we give them some sort of concession, then they’re just gonna keep that and leave ukraine to get fucked or worse. Probably it would result in less loss of life, which is good, but, generally not a desirable outcome, even if I’m not really sure ukraine is a tipping point in terms of resource gain for russia, and making russia an international player. I think the economy has been pretty much in the shitter since like, russia was formed, and probably in the immediate post revolutionary period, from what I understand, like, after industrialization, they were just kinda fucked like, around stalin times, maybe.
At the same time, though, the most I can really think of is that this war might end when internal support from russians, mostly from the russian oligarchy outside of putin, puts enough pressure on it that it either stops entirely or results in some sort of internal power struggle. I don’t know if that’s really going to happen, they all seem pretty much insanely corrupt, and I dunno what america might do other than kind of, attempt to spark internal dissent, which also seems like a bad idea based on how much success we’ve had with that historically. The russian people seem to be maybe the most propagandized people on earth, even considering the americans and chinese, which is saying something, so I dunno if internal dissent from the populous would ever mount enough to overthrow anything, as much as we might hope.
If we pull out, that doesn’t solve the problem long term, but it would give maybe some amount of time to kind of pursue other avenues with which the russian government might be dealt with more thoroughly. I also don’t know, right, because right now we’re sort of in a position where, since we’ve entered the war, everyone on either side is going to be very recalcitrant to end it. The costs, they are too sunk. It would’ve been much better had this war ended before it began, but unfortunately that wasn’t really in anyone’s geopolitical interest, and ukraine, once again, is fucked over. Realistically we should’ve sped up them becoming part of the UN, before a full-blown war came up, but then maybe that was the big L in the first place, and I dunno if there’s a circumstance in which they get out without russia getting some pie, just because of where they kind of ended up historically. Probably if I had to guess, the war is going to end either when russia concedes (which, as said, doesn’t seem likely unless russia’s internal bureaucracy collapses or undergoes some sort of change), or when russia gains some amount of territory in negotiations, gains something as a concession, and then hopefully the rest of ukraine can actually become part of the UN, in which case I will feel really dumb, because we could’ve just got there from the beginning without an ultramassive loss of life.
I think probably ending the war sooner is better rather than later, because at the very least that maybe gives us more time for putin to slowly age out of his position, but it would still be a decade before he’s even biden’s age, so, kind of dubious, and given where they’re at right now, probably some other jerkoff would just get appointed, so there would have to be some amount of change in the intervening time.
I dunno, war seems uhh, bad, maybe. If you want the tankie take, it’s going to basically be that this is a war which kills people (not based), that geopolitically benefits america (not based, as america sucks), and also that they more broadly align with BRICS as a kind of, more forward thinking, and perhaps better alternative to america, mostly as it exists through china. The problem as I see it is that every other country in that initiative outside of china and maybe south africa, is pretty much a diet-fascist shithole, and china is also very tenuously better than the US, it seems to me, to be very much an open question, as to whether or not the chinese shadow government will come out once america collapses and go full sicko commie mode, or if they’ll just turn like, extreme golden age neofascist company town garbage mode. I would like to believe one, but in my heart of hearts, I know that nothing good ever happens, so, I think probably we’re just fucked and BRICS will also suck once they probably take over in wake of a probably graceless collapse of american empire, if that’s even allowed to really happen.
Ukraine is already part of the UN, man. The issue is that Ukraine wants to join NATO, to avoid this very thing from happening (Russia invading), and Russia regards the prospect of Ukraine in NATO as a threat (to their ability to invade Ukraine and extract concessions). Russian peace negotiations have consistently had the destruction of Ukrainian sovereignty and ability to defend itself as core demands, from the very start of the war.
ayy ya tomato tomato, UN to NATO
*tankies
I haven’t seen leftists defending Russia at all, but have witnessed scores of right-wing Americans and Canadians garbling that Russian D.
I have. Not so much that they are all rah, rah, russia, but because the west is the one supporting Ukraine. They seem to believe russia was, in fact, there to “de-nazify” Ukraine, and other russian propaganda. You know, the country who had recently ousted a putin puppet, then elected a Jewish man in a landslide, was so in need of a russia to fight the nazis that have over run the country.
I’ve seen plenty of tankies defend Russia M8. Especially on lemmy. What rock are you living in.
There’s 8 billion people in the world. After this war and all the dead there will be 8.2 billion people in the world.
Society is what we have spent centuries crafting.
One side of this war wants to completely destroy society and push further into Europe, trying to reclaim their land holdings from hundred years ago.
The other side just wants to exist and be left alone.
I very much care about who wins
I’ve seen plenty of tankies “defend Russia” M8. Especially on lemmy fucking tons of erm
I feel like it’s the same dozen howling assholes.
Me personally fuck Putin and fuck zelensky. I don’t care who wins
Yeah, you lost me there… Last time the world tried appeasing an asshole with conquest delusions in the hope they’d cut it out it didn’t work out to well
Me personally fuck Putin and fuck zelensky. I don’t care who wins.
Congratulations, you’re who OP is talking about.
Stop the war
How?
Generally what you’ll see is right wing types directly supporting Russia (because they hate gay and trans people) and a certain stripe of leftists who will lean more into “NATO expansionism”, “Western proxy war” and all that other thoroughly debunked nonsense that, while not explicitly pro-Russia, is all directly lifted from Kremlin propaganda talking points.
You need two (or more) proxies to have a proxy war and looking at the belligerents and who supports them it’s clear who is who: Ukraine is South Korea’s proxy, Russia the one of North Korea.
TIL criticizing NATO is pro russian
The only way to get that from what I said would be;
A) a serious lack of reading comprehension.
Or
B) intentionally misconstruing in bad faith.
You’re more than welcome to tell us all which it was.
It is if you are doing it in a discussion about whether or not Russia should be allowed to enact wars of aggression…
Tankies aren’t leftists.
The west defending ukraine
“The west” ain’t defending shit. At best it only throws more timber into fire.
Eyy caught one.
So what’s the solution, hang Ukraine out to dry?
