• Shapillon@lemmy.world
      0·
      1 个月前

      America is involved in waaay more than a war every 80yrs.

      There was Irak, Afghanistan, Kuwait, and Vietnam at the very least.

        • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
          0·
          1 个月前

          Given that it took another 100 years from 1860 until formal equal rights regardless of race were established we should mabye just call them wars between white supremacists and other white supremacists.

    • Liz@midwest.socialEnglish
      0·
      1 个月前

      Gotta wait for the last people who experienced the horrors first hand to finally retire from power.

      • xantoxis@lemmy.world
        0·
        1 个月前

        Yeah I actually think this is literally why. As a species we can write things down all we want but we struggle to truly understand things we didn’t experience.

  • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
    0·
    1 个月前

    Wait till OP learns about what America did to non-white people in its’ history.

    The Nuremberg race laws were inspired by JimCrow and were actually less restrictive.

      • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
        0·
        1 个月前

        How is the fact that america was built on white supremacy and literally inspired Nazi policy whataboutism?

        • BigFig@lemmy.worldEnglish
          0·
          1 个月前

          Because that’s not what we’re talking about in this thread. You’re bringing up other atrocities and moving the spot light off of the topic at hand

          • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
            0·
            1 个月前

            The post is about the US being an antifascist nation, while it has a very fascist-adjacent history.

            CIA backed coups in south America would be whataboutism. How the US inspired the Nazis: not so much.

            • snooggums@midwest.socialEnglish
              0·
              1 个月前

              How the US inspired the Nazis: not so much.

              …and then we fought a war over it. Do you need to be introduced to a calendar?

              • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
                0·
                1 个月前

                As if the US was the main character of WW2. How arrogant do you have to be?

                When did operation paperclip occur, again?

                • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
                  0·
                  1 个月前

                  Operation Paperclip: when we imported Nazis to run our government. Of course. Silly me. That’s why the civil rights movement had its greatest successes and prominence right after WW2, because of all the fascists we decided to empower.

              • Dkarma@lemmy.world
                0·
                1 个月前

                Half the country didn’t want to fight the war, are you daft,? It took pearl harbor to even start to change minds.

            • JayleneSlide@lemmy.world
              0·
              1 个月前

              The history of the US isn’t “fascist-adjacent;” we’ve had our heads ALL THE WAY UP THAT ASS since the beginning and ongoing. Most of the founding fathers were worried that an “excess of democracy” would be bad for business (season 4 of “Scene on Radio,” https://sceneonradio.org/category/season-4/page/2/).

              The US’ crusade against all things vaguely left of center goes even deeper than I ever thought. It’s a bit surprising how many of the most dreadful dictators in the past 100 years were graduates of the School of the Americas and/or installed by the CIA. See: “The Jakarta Method” by Vincent Bevins.

              Prunebutt is right here: the US was, at best, laissez-faire about Nazis until it wasn’t. Nazis were good for business. I’ve read a lot on the topic, but can’t find any good citations at the moment. This is an accessible, albeit lightweight entry point: https://time.com/5414055/american-nazi-sympathy-book/. But listen to just about year of “Behind the Bastards,” and it’s a deep rabbit hole of how closely tied to fascism the US had always been.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
                0·
                1 个月前

                Prunebutt is right here: the US was, at best, laissez-faire about Nazis until it wasn’t.

                Oh, I guess I must have imagined the Roosevelt administration being stridently anti-Nazi from the beginning, and the mass protests whenever Nazis showed up in the US. Silly me.

                • JayleneSlide@lemmy.world
                  0·
                  1 个月前

                  Oh, I guess I must have imagined the Roosevelt administration being stridently anti-Nazi from the beginning, and the mass protests whenever Nazis showed up in the US. Silly me.

                  You are correct that you are imagining this, because the US’ relationship to Germany was definitely complex. Roosevelt was far from “stridently anti-Nazi” until Kristallnacht (1938 Nov 9), at which point Roosevelt recalled the US ambassador to Germany and allowed the 12,000 visiting Germans to remain in the US. However, despite allowing those Germans to stay, he did not push to increase immigration quotas.

                  Prior to Kristallnacht, the Roosevelt administration, Hollywood, petroleum companies, and much of the manufacturing base were very pro-Nazi Germany. The administration assisted Germany in circumventing boycotts while US petroleum companies provided fuel and oil despite European sanctions. Sources: Robert Evans (“Behind the Bastards”), Rafael Medoff (“Roosevelt’s Pre-war Attitude Toward the Nazis”)

                • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
                  0·
                  1 个月前

                  Oh, I guess I must have imagined

                  Well, I guess you must have been there, if you didn’t imagine it. /s

                  Clarification: that was a joke and not supposed to be a proper addition to the argument.

    • IzzyScissor@lemmy.world
      0·
      1 个月前

      Wait until ButtHurt hears that that’s literally what we’re talking about and their ‘gotcha’ is meaningless bullshit.

        • Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
          0·
          1 个月前

          Nobody ever said it was. This was a call for anti-fascism.

          If you want to argue down a call for action against Fascism, go for it, but don’t act surprised when people call you a Fascist for it.

          If there’s a real point you wish to make, it’s lost in way you’ve presented it. Instead of being a miserable scold, you could have added to the conversation, but since feel that everything you post needs to be in the form of a rebuttal, it comes across as though you are trying to completely invalidate OP’s meme rather than add little color to it.

          Everyone here already knows about America’s troubled history. You’re preaching to the choir. It really sounds like you’re defending Nazis by claiming that America is somehow the “real evil” when OP’s post can pretty succinctly be summarized as “Nazis Bad”.

          We did fight Nazis in WWII, everything else notwithstanding, and we are going to have to do it again soon. We’re trying to figure out who is on what side, and with your attitude, you’re going to end up being an honorary fascist since you’re going to throw a semantic tantrum every time someone signals anti-fascism.

          • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
            0·
            1 个月前

            This was a call for anti-fascism.

            … By way of national pride, forgetting the US’s “troubled” past. Trying to counter fascism with patriotism is a dangerous game.

            Everyone here already knows about America’s troubled history. You’re preaching to the choir.

            The responses seem too differ.

            You’re awfully glib about a looming civil war.

            Sure, the person disliking patriotism will be an “honorary fascist”. /s 🙄

            • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
              0·
              1 个月前

              forgetting the US’s “troubled” past

              The Confederacy is right there. In the meme.

              Are you even trying?

              • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
                0·
                1 个月前

                Like the confederacy was the only time the US was white supremacist. Ever heard of Nixon and how his war on drugs was just a strategy to criminalize black people (and leftists)?

                • PugJesus@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
                  0·
                  1 个月前

                  I’m sorry the meme doesn’t acknowledge every crime of the USA in the space of one photo and three sentences?

    • UrbonMaximus@feddit.uk
      0·
      1 个月前

      Don’t think I’ve seen a bigger oxymoron before… The definition of punk is being anti-authoritarian.

      • ettyblatant@lemmy.world
        0·
        1 个月前

        It’s in reference to the Dead Kennedys’ song with that same title. There was a rise in far right “punk music” along with early skinhead (neo-nazi) movement when the song was written. Nazi punks were trying to flood the scene and people were not letting them.

        “Nazi punks” beat the oxymoron by being anti-authoritarian, just depending on who’s authority they reject.

          • xspurnx@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            0·
            1 个月前

            Did you think this through? Seems pretty authoritarian to me (sounds like “nobody should rule but me”)… maybe it’s a quote so I don’t get it.

            I like this bettrr: Und weil der Mensch ein Mensch ist, drum hat er Stiefel im Gesicht nicht gern! Er will unter sich keinen Sklaven seh’n und über sich keinen Herr’n.

            (And because a human is a human, he doesn’t want a boot to the face! He wants no slaves under him, and no masters above!) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einheitsfrontlied

  • Cobrachicken@lemmy.world
    0·
    1 个月前

    These days, and especially with the continuing shift to the right in Europe, I’m repeatedly asking myself what the attractiveness of these ideologies is, that so many people again fall for them. They represent destruction not future. They do not have a plan for the future, they are only “against” everything good.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
      0·
      1 个月前

      People want quick solutions to complicated problems. What quicker solution is there to all of your problems than blaming it on a disadvantaged group of people and persecuting them for it?

      They never realize it’s not an effective solution until they’re way too established in the “kill the X” mode.

    • yeather@lemmy.ca
      0·
      1 个月前

      Fascism preys on the ideas of regime change and stagnation. Physically, a government wishing to gather power through voters will promise new public works, a focus on workers, and the general embetterment of society. Ideologically, fascism promises a purging of those in power, those that lead the stagnation and bad working conditions that started the movement. They conveniently pin in on a group of people or a few undesirable groups to appeal to a large number of the population and then make a grab for power. Bad times and stagnation create fascism.

    • GladiusB@lemmy.world
      0·
      1 个月前

      They are looking for a community that accepts them. That’s why they are usually from broken poor white people with drug problems. Their parents are absent in many ways and are looking for somewhere to belong.

    • Hylactor@sopuli.xyz
      0·
      1 个月前

      Same thing any “in group” feeds on: self esteem. If you feel powerless, or worthless, or rudderless, any group that makes you feel powerful, valuable, and effective is going to be very appealing. Conservatives (read: fascists) prey on this. They make it seem like joining them is brave, and important. And since their followers lack identity and purpose, their self worth becomes entangled with [in group], be it closeted fascism such as the American GOP, or flaming such as Q/proud boys/whatever. And since their identity and value depends on the perpetuation and proliferation of their in group, they willingly accept lies and falsehood. Pretty easy to gaslight someone who’s encouraging it.

      Then when they wear their symbols of hate, or make shocking claims, or in anyway troll and grief society, up to and including dismantling democracy, they get a reaction. They’ve exerted their will on the world around them, and as such they feel powerful. The insidious bit is, even if the good guys win, with all their high falutin factual arguments and social programs, it just makes these sad people angier and feel worthless again. So they go right back to their pimps for some more sweet lies and marching orders.

      • taiyang@lemmy.world
        0·
        1 个月前

        This is spot on and something I teach in social psychology. One thing that helps is increasing membership in other groups so that the dismantling of one group doesn’t fracture their self identity. Granted I usually teach this with more benign examples (e.g. if you’re a “good student” and get a bad grade, it hurts more depending on how important it is to your identity). But the idea is the same.

        A few things you can look up though: cognitive dissonance, confirmation biases, contact hypothesis, and probably a few more. The funny thing is, social psychology as a discipline boomed after WW2 because people wanted to know why Nazis were Nazis. It’s only recently we also realized that social rejection uses the same parts of the brain as physical pain, though.

    • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
      0·
      1 个月前

      They construct an ideology where everything was great way back when foreign powers were jealous of our national heritage and destroyed everything. It’s a very easy to grasp and convenient myth, since your nation becomes the main character of history.

      Nationalism/patriotism is very succeptible to falling for fascist ideology. Therefore, everyone waving their national flag with pride is sus to me.

      • SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world
        0·
        1 个月前

        Your last sentence especially hit it home for me. I’m not currently proud of America, and I myself would feel like a total jamoke waving around the US flag with a grin right now.

        But I will vote and try my best to fight for a country that I can be proud of.

        • ...m...@ttrpg.network
          0·
          1 个月前

          …one can support american ideals without supporting actions of the american state: it’s our choice which that flag represents…

          …sadly, fascists have so brazenly siezed the apparatus of our state that whenever i see its flag proudly unfurled these days, my first reaction is to associate its bearer with fascism…

    • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
      0·
      1 个月前

      It provides easy answers.

      You’re a good strong person. They’re bad people. All your problems are their fault

      Most people love feeling like they’re part of a group.

    • qarbone@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      1 个月前

      Why are you assuming most people care or are capable of reasoning about some vague “future”? Right now they feel disenfranchised because right now some <insert slur> is getting uppity.