This was never a conversation about symbols. You’ve attempted to force it to be one but its about how the USSR aas a facsist state, having a cult of tradition (the glorious worker), irrationalism, disagreement being treason, a fear of intruders, is derived from social frustration, deprives people of an identity outside of “comrade”, humiliated by the wealth of the west, a permanent war and struggle that required ever more production, elitism - as all senior positions were awarded due to nepotism and being part of the inner circle, everyone is told that they’re a hero work of the glorious peoples revolution etc., mass incarcerations of LGBT people under stalin, selective populism and endless newspeak. So, having met 13 of the 14 from your own link, they are clear fascist, even if you don’t like it.
As if you posted a link that proved you wrong, then declared yourself to be correct due to it and then presumed to tell me what my own comment was about and what my own conversation about my own damn comment is about.
Its the symbol of communism, as opposed to the USSR alone.
This is what I replied to. This is just about symbols, and you referred to the Hammer & Sickle as a “symbol of Communism,” not the “USSR alone.” While partially true, you had previously called the USSR fascist, which means the symbol would be a symbol of fascism, which is why I pointed out your discrepancy.
This was never a conversation about symbols. You’ve attempted to force it to be one but its about how the USSR aas a facsist state, having a cult of tradition (the glorious worker), irrationalism, disagreement being treason, a fear of intruders, is derived from social frustration, deprives people of an identity outside of “comrade”, humiliated by the wealth of the west, a permanent war and struggle that required ever more production, elitism - as all senior positions were awarded due to nepotism and being part of the inner circle, everyone is told that they’re a hero work of the glorious peoples revolution etc., mass incarcerations of LGBT people under stalin, selective populism and endless newspeak. So, having met 13 of the 14 from your own link, they are clear fascist, even if you don’t like it.
1.The USSR did not have a Cult of Tradition. The CoT refers to blocking development of understanding, which was the opposite of what the USSR tried to do, with Dialectical Materialism driving their science. This was a forward looking country, not one that focused on occultism and other forms of syncretism. “The Glorious Worker” is not what the Cult of Tradition means, you obviously only read the headline and made something up.
There was not an attack on science, the opposite happened. The sciences were venerated, Atheism was the state religion and the USSR was the other active participant in the Space Race. Again, this is a point where you read a line and just put it without doing analysis.
Disagreement was Treason, this we agree with. You are correct here, as I already said this one was correct.
There was not a cultivated racial fear of others. Other classes were certainly oppressed, and there were racially motivated deportations, but that does not mean they intentionally fostered fear of foreigners in the public like they do in the US. We can claim this point as correct though, based on the State’s actions alone, if you want, but it does not fulfill Eco’s point.
The USSR did not appeal to a frustrated middle class! It appealed to the lower class! You intentionally obscured that Eco is specifically talking about the Petite Bourgeoisie, ie small business owners that formed the backbone of fascist movements, and replaced it with the proletariat! This, in no way, was represented in the USSR.
No, the USSR did not “deprive people of identity outside of comrade,” lmao. Comrade was a friendly term, if you can point to how it was intentionally to remove individual expression, be my guest.
The USSR never portrayed their enemies as weak, they always portrayed themselves as strong underdogs and their enemies as strong as well. You can add this point too, if you want though, as the USSR did have enemies for its entire existence. So far that’s 3 points.
The USSR never existed on the idea of a “forever war,” the Bolsheviks took power during World War I campaigning on pulling Russia out of the war. Instead, war found its way to the USSR, usually. You can keep this point though, for most of the USSR’s existence it was at war. 4 points.
Do you have any proof that it was all nepotism? That seems like a baseless claim to tack on the idea that it was elitst. There was no contempt for the weak, they had universal free healthcare and education.
There was no Cult of Death in the USSR, death wasn’t venerated. The USSR had a large Healthcare sector and valued life, the “Hero education” was more referring to the likes of Nazi Germany.
Machismo is not simply homophobia. The USSR was the first major country to decriminalize homophobia twice, because even after Stalin other countries still had not caught up to Lenin’s USSR in terms of LGBT rights. Machismo is also about how partiarchial society is, and again in that regard the USSR was progressive, with sexism being actively acted against, and glorification of women serving in the army. It was not as progressive as modern western nations today, but in its historical context it was the most progressive.
Selective Populism was one of the points I said you could argue, so we can keep it. 5 points total so far.
Newspeak. No, lol, what are you talking about?
Under actual scrutiny, only 5 points apply, even as a stretch, it’s clear that you’re less interested in actual analysis and more interested in calling it fascist.
As if you posted a link that proved you wrong, then declared yourself to be correct due to it and then presumed to tell me what my own comment was about and what my own conversation about my own damn comment is about.
Again, can you even hear yourself?
Do you hear yourself? I literally quoted you talking about the symbol, then you intentionally lie about Ur-Fascism (point 5 is especially historically inaccurate, unless you think, somehow, the Proletariat is a “middle class?”). This is Newspeak, lol
This was never a conversation about symbols. You’ve attempted to force it to be one but its about how the USSR aas a facsist state, having a cult of tradition (the glorious worker), irrationalism, disagreement being treason, a fear of intruders, is derived from social frustration, deprives people of an identity outside of “comrade”, humiliated by the wealth of the west, a permanent war and struggle that required ever more production, elitism - as all senior positions were awarded due to nepotism and being part of the inner circle, everyone is told that they’re a hero work of the glorious peoples revolution etc., mass incarcerations of LGBT people under stalin, selective populism and endless newspeak. So, having met 13 of the 14 from your own link, they are clear fascist, even if you don’t like it.
As if you posted a link that proved you wrong, then declared yourself to be correct due to it and then presumed to tell me what my own comment was about and what my own conversation about my own damn comment is about.
Again, can you even hear yourself?
This is what I replied to. This is just about symbols, and you referred to the Hammer & Sickle as a “symbol of Communism,” not the “USSR alone.” While partially true, you had previously called the USSR fascist, which means the symbol would be a symbol of fascism, which is why I pointed out your discrepancy.
1.The USSR did not have a Cult of Tradition. The CoT refers to blocking development of understanding, which was the opposite of what the USSR tried to do, with Dialectical Materialism driving their science. This was a forward looking country, not one that focused on occultism and other forms of syncretism. “The Glorious Worker” is not what the Cult of Tradition means, you obviously only read the headline and made something up.
There was not an attack on science, the opposite happened. The sciences were venerated, Atheism was the state religion and the USSR was the other active participant in the Space Race. Again, this is a point where you read a line and just put it without doing analysis.
Disagreement was Treason, this we agree with. You are correct here, as I already said this one was correct.
There was not a cultivated racial fear of others. Other classes were certainly oppressed, and there were racially motivated deportations, but that does not mean they intentionally fostered fear of foreigners in the public like they do in the US. We can claim this point as correct though, based on the State’s actions alone, if you want, but it does not fulfill Eco’s point.
The USSR did not appeal to a frustrated middle class! It appealed to the lower class! You intentionally obscured that Eco is specifically talking about the Petite Bourgeoisie, ie small business owners that formed the backbone of fascist movements, and replaced it with the proletariat! This, in no way, was represented in the USSR.
No, the USSR did not “deprive people of identity outside of comrade,” lmao. Comrade was a friendly term, if you can point to how it was intentionally to remove individual expression, be my guest.
The USSR never portrayed their enemies as weak, they always portrayed themselves as strong underdogs and their enemies as strong as well. You can add this point too, if you want though, as the USSR did have enemies for its entire existence. So far that’s 3 points.
The USSR never existed on the idea of a “forever war,” the Bolsheviks took power during World War I campaigning on pulling Russia out of the war. Instead, war found its way to the USSR, usually. You can keep this point though, for most of the USSR’s existence it was at war. 4 points.
Do you have any proof that it was all nepotism? That seems like a baseless claim to tack on the idea that it was elitst. There was no contempt for the weak, they had universal free healthcare and education.
There was no Cult of Death in the USSR, death wasn’t venerated. The USSR had a large Healthcare sector and valued life, the “Hero education” was more referring to the likes of Nazi Germany.
Machismo is not simply homophobia. The USSR was the first major country to decriminalize homophobia twice, because even after Stalin other countries still had not caught up to Lenin’s USSR in terms of LGBT rights. Machismo is also about how partiarchial society is, and again in that regard the USSR was progressive, with sexism being actively acted against, and glorification of women serving in the army. It was not as progressive as modern western nations today, but in its historical context it was the most progressive.
Selective Populism was one of the points I said you could argue, so we can keep it. 5 points total so far.
Newspeak. No, lol, what are you talking about?
Under actual scrutiny, only 5 points apply, even as a stretch, it’s clear that you’re less interested in actual analysis and more interested in calling it fascist.
Do you hear yourself? I literally quoted you talking about the symbol, then you intentionally lie about Ur-Fascism (point 5 is especially historically inaccurate, unless you think, somehow, the Proletariat is a “middle class?”). This is Newspeak, lol