There should be a debate on substantive issues, but there’s no reason to include a fringe candidate who isn’t even on the ballot in most states.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_access_in_the_2024_United_States_presidential_election
She’s on the ballot in my state, and I wouldn’t say she is a fringe candidate since there are other green party members who have been elected in political positions.
As of 2023, the Green Party is the fourth-largest political party in the United States by voter registration, behind the Libertarian Party.
If we wanna do away with a corrupt 2-party system, then we need to accept 3rd parties.
And if the two main parties are so good and awesome, then they should have no problem decimating a 3rd party candidate in the debates.
The fourth largest still only receives like, a percentage of the votes nationally. Green Party is absolutely fringe. So is the third largest with RFK.
At the state and local level it’s easy to get elected just by showing up.
In any case a lot of the green party’s policy is fringe.
Ok, so what is the number for you to not consider a party “fringe”?
The Green Party has gotten significant support in elections, especially at the local level.
In 2020, Howie Hawkins, the Green Party presidential candidate, secured over 400,000 votes nationwide.
The party has had several elected officials, including mayors and city council members, across the country, showing it’s more than just a protest vote.
There are more than 240,000 registered Green Party members.
So how many voters have to be registered before it’s considered “not fringe.”
And IF it does get the amount of voters you think would qualify, then you gonna support a debate?
Fringe isn’t something easily defined by hard thresholds
They’re on the margins, at the edges of the political space.
And to put that 400k into perspective… the difference between Biden and Trump in New York was 1,992,889 in 2020.
Nationally, Biden beat Trump on the popular vote by 7,059,526; not to mention the big fat goose egg of electoral votes that 400k counts as.
If that’s not stark enough, that 400k represents zero-point-two-six percent of the total votes.
The entire party would have to carpet bag to Wyoming to get a single EC vote. Or maybe one of the Dakota’s.
Across the nation, there are thousands of elected officials that run unopposed. It’s not hard to get elected just by showing up in some of these places.
Ok, so at what point does that change for you?
What is the number you think should count?
And if Green Party hits that number, do you think they should be allowed to debate the Dems and Repubs?
You’re sealioning.
As I’ve already said:
Fringe isn’t something easily defined by hard thresholds They’re on the margins, at the edges of the political space.
There is no special threshold. The idea of being “fringe” is inherently nebulous.
For debates, that’s something established by the candidates. Nobody can make them debate each other, or include random 3rd parties.
Neither Harris nor Trump are going to debate her. Because she’s on the fringe of American politics.
if Stein wants onto that debate stage, she’s going to have to show ignoring her is more dangerous than playing to her apparent lack of awareness, and to put it bluntly… that’s not going to happen.
Oh, so NOW there’s no numbers that will make the party not fringe.
lol Right. Dude, just admit it. You’re so scared that Trump might win, you are mad that not everyone is voting for Harris.
You keep being scared. I’ll keep voting for who I want to.
What are you afraid of tho? I mean, if Stein has no chance, and Harris is so awesome, then you are a shoo in to win. Right?!
Why so angry and afraid of a 3rd party that you think has no chance and no hope? Shouldn’t affect you at all, right?!
Like how you’re a Russian stooge that got left behind for a more annoying Russian stooge, stein?
Removed, civility.
How am I a Russian stooge? Born, raised, living and working in the USA. Work as a teacher. Do you accuse everyone who disagrees with you, of being a Russian stooge? Srs question.
Rule 3 of this commnuity says that you must “Be civil” and not call me a pejorative. You calling me a Russian stooge is NOT ok, and I can report you to the mods for doing that.
Feel free to disagree with me, but name-calling isn’t allowed in this community.
The poster ended the question with “Stein,” so if you’re not Jill Stein, I don’t think it was directed at you.
Fair point. But I don’t understand it in that context because he says “you’re a Russian stooge that got left behind for a more annoying Russian stooge”
So if he were referring to Stein, who is the “more annoying Russian stooge”?
Trump.
Before republicans turned all pro-Russia, Green Party was pushing Putin’s agenda.
Specific to Stein, for example.
To copy the text of someone else in this thread who explained it better than I can: All this suggests is that the Russians tried to divert left leaning voters away from Clinton by boosting Stein’s candidacy. There is zero evidence there that Stein was contacted by Russia or even aware of the way in which her campaign was being hijacked.
Trump.
OH!!! Yeah, ok, I can see it that way now. I feel silly for not noticing. I’ll delete my original comment!
Pretty sure they were saying Stein was the russian stooge being the “critical issue” …
All this suggests is that the Russians tried to divert left leaning voters away from Clinton by boosting Stein’s candidacy. There is zero evidence there that Stein was contacted by Russia or even aware of the way in which her campaign was being hijacked.
And I disagree. All this suggests is that the Russians tried to divert left leaning voters away from Clinton by boosting Stein’s candidacy. There is zero evidence there that Stein was contacted by Russia or even aware of the way in which her campaign was being hijacked.
Hmmm, maybe, but I don’t understand it in that context because he says “you’re a Russian stooge that got left behind for a more annoying Russian stooge”
So if he were referring to Stein, who is the “more annoying Russian stooge”?
Trump gift-wrapped the Republican Party for Putin, and when that happened, the Russian influence campaign stopped support for the Green Party (and stein, specifically) because they were just less useful.
FFS. Jill Stein?!?!
Nobody under the age of 40 has even heard your name. You stand for nothing, and have zero experience at this level of political governance. Just go fuck off.
Also, anyone reading this who still votes for her is a vote for Trump or RFKjr, which is a negative. She has no chance. Never did.
…so debates are bad? I’m not voting for her, but how does calling for meaningful debates trigger this response?
Right?
If the democratic nom, and the republican nom are so sure of themselves, so sure that they are the best choice, then why are they afraid to debate a 3rd party?!
I mean, if the 3rd party person sucks so bad and is so terrible, then they could totally prove that in a debate.
So yeah, why does the idea of having a real debate with a larger 3rd party candidate scare the other parties so much?
She’s also a Russian-planted spoiler running in order to divert would-be Democratic votes into a black hole where they would otherwise help stave off Trump’s fascist rise to power.
Any legit news articles that have proof that she has been “planted” by Russia?
Russia being overjoyed about a candidate or laughing as we don’t know who to vote for, doesn’t mean she’s a russian plant.
Conspiracy subs are that way ------>
Nice. But any proof that she has been “planted” or paid or conspired by/with Russia? Just because Russia used her name to spread discontent, doesn’t mean that she had anything to do with that.
They would have picked any third party candidate that had the following she does.
That’s Russia’s doing, not Jill Steins.
Also, if she is so terrible, and Harris and Trump are so awesome, then they could totally decimate her in a campaign.
So why so afraid of her? I mean, there are so many people saying she has “no chance.” Cool! Then easy debate. Right?
Lmao okay. Just Jill Stein in December 2015 casually dining with Vladimir Putin, Michael Flynn who worked under the Trump Administration and is now a convicted felon for lying to the FBI about his relationship with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak, and several high-ranking members of Putin’s cabinet.
Ok, but any proof that she has been “planted” or paid or conspired by/with Russia? Just because Russia used her name to spread discontent, doesn’t mean that she had anything to do with that.
They would have picked any third party candidate that had the following she does.
That’s Russia’s doing, not Jill Steins.
Also, if she is so terrible, and Harris and Trump are so awesome, then they could totally decimate her in a campaign.
So why so afraid of her? I mean, there are so many people saying she has “no chance.” Cool! Then easy debate. Right?
Literally just copy–pasting the sealioning at this point. 💀
Because you are refusing to answer the question. Any proof she was/is a russian plant, on a russian payroll?
And if you have proof, have you given it to the major news organizations.
Or better yet, let’s have open debates, then the Democrat/Republican parties can decimate her with all of this hard proof you have.
I mean, hey, let’s finish the Green Party once and for all.
They’ve bugged you long enough! This is a perfect time to put her in jail for corruption and fraud.
So when are ya gonna make that happen? Maybe send to WikiLeaks? Or the conspiracy sub?
Ohhhh, so now you are “refusing” to dignify me with an answer. Ok, ok.
Well be sure to contact the news media. This will be front page news!
Think about it! The green party would be decimated, and then you wouldn’t have to worry about them.
I mean, they are soooo corrupt. As you have said.
Ok, fine, so don’t tell me or show me the proof. Please contact the news media. I’d very much like to see an investigative article on this and watch it all crumble down.
You do not seem to be arguing in good faith. The link that user provided included further links to “legit” news sources like this one from NBC. Unless you are claiming that NBC is not a legitimate news source. Here’s a quote from it that seems pertinent.
A new report commissioned by members of the U.S. Senate intelligence committee expands upon another facet of Russia’s pro-Trump operation: an effort to divert votes away from Hillary Clinton and toward Green Party candidate Jill Stein.
An analysis from NBC News found an extensive, coordinated effort by Russian operatives to boost Stein’s candidacy by targeting voters from key Democratic demographics.
One example NBC News highlighted was an Instagram account called @woke_blacks, which shared pro-Stein images in the run-up to the election and dismissed valid criticism that votes for Stein would help Donald Trump’s candidacy in crucial swing states.
None of this proves Stein is a “Russian-planted spoiler”, which is what was alleged and what OP asked for evidence of. All this suggests is that the Russians tried to divert left leaning voters away from Clinton by boosting Stein’s candidacy. There is zero evidence there that Stein was contacted by Russia or even aware of the way in which her campaign was being hijacked.
Thank you for restoring my faith in this community. I had no idea that me posting a news article about the Green Party would make a “politics” sub so irrationally angry. lol
And thank you for explaining about the Russian diversion campaign so much better than I did. If you don’t mind, I will use your wording from now on. Much more clear and succinct than my attempts to say the same thing.
Guess I’ll keep doing posting about the Green Party tho. Because this is a “politics” sub and not just a “If you aren’t a Democrat, don’t post here” sub. :)
It’s all good. As a fellow Green voter from Australia, I always feel sorry for those of you stuck in countries where you can’t simultaneously vote for your Green party and vote against the major right wing party or coalition. You are endlessly subjected to the most deranged attacks from people who just dogmatically repeat the same moronic, doomsday cult talking points like they’re an AI model that was trained exclusively on campaign propaganda.
Thank you!! Not only do they attack me in this Lemmy community, they actually follow me to other communities (that have nothing to do with politics) and try to downvote me there. All because I am not voting for their candidate. It’s crazy! lol
And it hasn’t changed my mind at all. Voting Green! Thanks for your support!
Keep doing your thing. People are so stupid on the internet and will read one thing and immediately post misinformation saying another thing. I wouldn’t say “Russian diversion campaign” since Jill Stein is running in good faith and you don’t want people to think her whole campaign is one.
Thank you!
You saying that I don’t “seem to be arguing in good faith” implies that I am lying or being deceitful. Not true.
Nothing in that link shows that she is paid by Russia to spoil the election, or is a russian stooge.
Russia taking advantage of America’s disconten in voting and trying to throw the election, doesn’t mean that Jill Stein was in on it.
That’s like me spending money to a hacker, and saying that “user Boddhisatva of Lemmy” is a better CEO of a company than Elon Musk.
And then say I start tweeting that. Then I start advocating that. I start saying "“user Boddhisatva of Lemmy” every where.
Does that mean you are my stooge?
Just because Russia is an asshole, doesn’t mean that Jill Stein is corrupt. Even if you don’t like her.
I’m not Jill Stein, so I am not sure what you mean.
Also, a vote for Stein is not a vote for Trump, it’s a vote for Jill Stein.
I’m American and I have every right to vote for who I want to be president. Even if it’s not someone you like.
Oh , wow. So you’re just an active idiot versus a passive. A willing, as the Russians call it.
Where do you think Jill gets all her money from?
Yes, I am an active “idiot”. You and others in this thread inspired me to start a Green Party community right here on Lemmy World just now.
Is that active enough for ya?
See, there wasn’t one on here until I created it.
So thanks for the inspiration!! Maybe someone who is undecided will see it and vote Green Party.
All thanks to you! :)
From donations and people like me. Where do YOU think Jill gets her money from?
And do you have proof that she has gotten “all” her money from Russia? Seems like that would be a front page news article if true.
Have you contacted major news organizations with your proof of all this corruption in the Green Party?
You know, you can just not like her. And that’s fine. But you don’t have to say or imply that she’s paid for by Russia. lol
It doesn’t have to be a grand conspiracy. You don’t like her. Ok, then don’t vote for her.
I like her. And I’m voting for her. As is my right.
Speaking of Grand Conspiracies. I’ve got one. You are full of shit!
Your account is 24 hours old, you demand proof of every response.
Two of the posts you made seem like advertisements for a community college AND you seem to think you’re on Reddit in those posts.
“incredibly proud of the place, but I’m disappointed that there’s not much info on reddit about this school, considering how amazing this small school in West Virginia is. So that’s why I created this subreddit”
You are not being genuine, and you should go away.
So how long should I wait after starting an account before I post my opinions?
Did you post on the first day your account was started?!
you demand proof of every response.
Yep. We’re in a politics sub and people where are saying she’s a plant by russia. That deserves proof.
Why isn’t it front page news? That would destroy the Green Party which you all seem to hate.
So where is the proof? Don’t you all wanna see the Green Party go away? Well then proof it’s corrupt. Let the media do it’s thing.
And the posts aren’t “advertisements” for a community college. I am migrating my reddit account posts to Lemmy. And I am cutting and pasting, so good catch on the Reddit verbiage.
In fact, keep watching that sub, because I am posting more posts right now
Feel free to look: https://www.reddit.com/r/pierpontctc
Notice the username of the mod for the reddit account? Check the profile and tell me what you see.
See a similarity to my username here? could it be that I am the same guy?! Hmmmm…
So here’s the thing. I got banned on Reddit. You know why? Because I posted in the r/politics sub several posts of why I was voting green party.
And on reddit, even the r/poltics is supposed to be “politics,” it’s really just a pro-democrat forum.
So how am I not being genuine because I just started an account yesterday, after being banned from reddit?
In fact, I found out about Lemmy from reddit. From the r/alternativetoReddit sub.
So how am I not being genuine.
Ohhhh, let me guess. I’m in russia. And I’ve decided to post about a community college in Virginia and then talk about how I am voting green party.
Man, you caught me. THAT’S how I am gonna destroy the US.
Come on man, be real.
I’m voting for someone you don’t like. And you’re mad.
And now I can’t even post about the college I graduated from, because it’s russian propaganda.
Think about what you are saying.
And hey, I’m posting more stuff in my Pierpont Community and Tech college community too.
But hey, really Russia just wants you to go to a college in West Virginia, right? Right?!
To all the lemmy’s that don’t think every fucking thing in the world is a conspiracy: I got my associates degree from Pierpont Community and Technical college. They accept Sophia .org credits and previous college credits.
So you can get your associates for very little money. I spent less than $200 on classes to get mine.
Feel free to look it up. Google “BOG associates degree pierpont accepts sophia credits.”
But hey, that’s probably a russian thing too. BEcause of course Russia wants us all to graduate from college.
So have you checked out posts from https://www.reddit.com/r/pierpontctc yet?
So you can see the mod’a user name? And see the messages of saying that the posts were going to migrate here at this website?
Oh, probably not yet, huh? Cuz that doesn’t fit your conspiracy theory that I am a russian spy.
I said you were full of shit, and should go away. You brought up Russia
But wait, I forget then, what am I full of shit about?
So you DON’T think I am a russian spy? Right?!
Whew, cuz dude I was beginning to think you had lost your mind or something. Very glad you cleared that up. I guess my bad.
But maybe you can clarify. What is it I am full of shit about again?
I’m sorry I am dull. See, I graduated from a small college in West Virginia. So I’m not as bright as most Lemmy users.
Proud of my school (hence me starting a community about it on Reddit, then on this platform). Not so proud of my intelligence.
So can you help me, friend? What am I full of shit about?
OH wait! I remember. You don’t like who I am voting for, so that means I am full of shit. Ok, ok.
Wow, so you are not pro democracy then? You don’t think people should be able to vote for who they want?
Still waiting. And by the way, I corrected my post about the reddit stuff. Since I just cut and paste from my old reddit as I migrated to this site, I didn’t catch that. So thank you.
OH and I updated the sidebar in for https://lemmy.world/c/PierpontCTC too taking about how I migrated here from Reddit.
Oh wait, I keep forgetting that you think I am a Russian spy. Darn it. And our conversation was going so well.
Well I guess I should get back to my Russian spying of showing my Pierpont pride for a small affordable college in West Virginia.
Man, you caught me so bad! Wow.
So have you sent your proof that Jill Stein is a russian spy and his paid off by Russia, to the news orgs yet? I keep waiting to see it, but hmmmm…
“Oh wait, I keep forgetting that you think I am a Russian spy. Darn it. And our conversation was going so well.”
I never said that, AGAIN you did though.
And its not even right, spy’s do espionage, At best your worthy of a ‘troll farm employee’ accusation.
Probably going to block your long winded, associates degree having, Jill Stien Donating ass
Removed, civility.
The literal only reason I haven’t blocked this ridiculous troll yet is to downvote and call their bullshit out when I see their posts in this community and others.
I never said that, AGAIN you did though.
And I apologized for my error.
But I wanna be clear, so NOW you think that I MIGHT be a “troll farm employee.” Right?
Well of course you wanna block me. Because I called you out and asked for proof and all you proved was that you are mad that I’m voting for someone you don’t like.
And yes, I am very proud of my “associates degree having Jill Stein donating ass.”
And I’m also a Jill Stein voting ass too. You haven’t changed my mind at all.
In fact, seeing how mad you are, has made me even more proud that I’m voting for her and not letting people like you bully me. :)
Also, I’ll be posting more Green Party news. So you may wanna get your download button finger ready, friend!
Oh, and I wanna thank you. I JUST started a Green Party community that I am gonna be posting too.
You inspired me to share more about the Green Party since there are so many misconceptions.
So thank you. You may have indirectly inspired more Green Party votes.
Thank you!!
She is right. A real debate on critical issues would be nice
Agreed!
MSN.com - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for MSN.com:
MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - United States of America
Wikipedia about this sourceSearch topics on Ground.News
Critical issues like who is a Russian asset?
Any legit proof that she is a Russian asset?
Just because Russia likes someone or wants to so discontent by using someone’s name, doesn’t mean that person is a “Russian asset.”
Please show links to a legit major news organization that has done investigative reporting on Russian payments to Jill Stein.
Thanks to everyone posting here.
You all were sooo mad that I had the nerve to post an article that wasn’t about one of of the two main political parties (and they are basically the same party now anyway) and there are so many misconceptions here about the Green Party that I was inspired to start a Green Party community here on Lemmy World.
So thank you for that!
Jill Stein is a willful enabler and ally of fascists, she stands for nothing and means nothing.
I disagree. Feel freel to see for yourself: https://www.jillstein2024.com/platform
I’m happily voting for her.
If she wants any of that she probably shouldn’t be a useful idiot for Trump.
She doesn’t like Trump, now is she working for him.
She is running on her own platform. She’s with the Green Party. You seem to be confused about the political parties.
Here is the Wikipedia link to help ya out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_of_the_United_States
