People become lonely, disaffected, and negative towards the world they live in. They then reach out to other communities, and due to one thing, or another, primarily their personality, they don’t get accepted. However, communities based around hate will gladly take them in, as long as they fit a profile they are looking for.
"Are you a young, white, male, that is dissatisfied with their life, and the world? Well, we accept you here. These things are not your fault, it is the fault of others. You aren’t the reason you cannot get a relationship with a women, it is the women who are fault for this. The reason it is so hard to get a good paying job? Immigrants. Why is housing so expensive, and hard to get, at least anywhere with a large enough job market to really advance somewhere? The Jews. Why can’t you rise on the corporate ladder where you work? Progressive policies… also jews, and immigrants. You are a white man, you should be rightfully at the top of the hierarchy. Women should be given, by their fathers, to men, on a mutually beneficial, transactional, basis. Women should submit to your authority. "
Or, in the case of incels “Are you depressed? Have no friends? No social life? No relationship with a woman? Are you an adult virgin, loser? Well that is because women are evil. We will accept you, unlike the evil female species.”
They love building strawmen dont they.
Everyone loves building strawmen. If you think only “they” do it, it’s because you’re unquestioningly accepting the ones that confirm your biases.
So in that thought women are prostitues? Because a beneficial transaction?
Not prostitutes. A lot of these groups believe we need to go back to when women were literally their property. You got a women because it created bonds within the community, and they often paid you to take her.
As I don’t believe in women being property but I would totally take Majorie Taylor Green as property. Then I could smack the shit out of her until she quits saying stupid ass shit that riles the American public in anger
Well, if she gets the hyper conservative, very old school, way of doing things, that she wants, you wont have to worry about seeing, or hearing, her again. She will be in the house, and not be allowed to be in the government. I mean she won’t even be able to vote.
The Internet is like a library: repository of knowledge, it’s also like cable TV where every crackpot has a broadcast license.
How you use it is up to you.
Wiccans name men incels, the name itself, involuntary celibate indicates they are there of some one else’s doing. They do this to ugly men, quiet men, and men they see as a threat. So why do you think they made themselves some thing involuntarily through not having knowledge? Are you trolling, or genuinely confused how the wiccan rape cult has destroyed society? Or are you just looking to attack men you think are less than you? Word matter, so how does a shy or fat guy deserve to be incels for how they look or act? Or do you not care about your victims? This misandrist sexism you’re pushing is tired and out of date, it’s literally what broke society. You need to rethink your entire thesis on society, because you’re deadly wrong, and society is changing with or without YOU.
The wiccan rape cult also finds its roots in Nazism as it came here after the fall of Germany. Men aren’t the problem, but if you feel they are, you’re definitely part of the problem.
the wiccan rape cult
I think you might be schizophrenic. Seek help.
There’s a difference between someone who is an incel and someone who would like to, but can’t find someone to have sex with. It’s like how all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. Not all people who can’t find someone to have sex with are incels even if they are technically involuntarily celibate. There is a lot more that goes along with the incel community than JUST involuntary celibacy.
A shy or fat guy who can’t find someone to sleep with might not classify as an incel for example, but someone who thinks like your comment very much does.
If you think not having sex is so terrible it’s basically torture, the problem isn’t that you haven’t had sex. It really isn’t that great, and you need to stop idolizing these things
What you’re actually missing, and misinterpreting as “sex will fix me” is genuine human connection, and that is a skill that takes a loooot of practice, mistakes, heartache, and even at times, being “cringe.”
But it’s easier to think that sex is some magical experience that a secret organization is denying you.
If you remember the post trump election memes about economic anxiety being mediaspeak for racism, this is basically where that came from.
Bigotry is a despair response, when the promises of normalcy fail someone, there’s a chance for them to start looking for new meaning to understand a seemingly indifferent world, and in that state of mind, being told you’re part of an exclusive club of inherent superiority is the ego stroke that gets them off.
From the moment they take that poison pill it basically plays out as an analogue of addiction. Even as they watch the sludge they’re mainlining destroy everything around them it doesn’t cut them off from, they just can’t stop, because the validation of feeling that it’s the entire world that’s wrong instead of just you being shit out of luck is too much for a lot of folks to be willing to part with.
It also doesn’t help that these people tend to get fired from jobs that don’t put up with racist bullshit, turning the whole validation needing into a vicious cycle sort of deal.
This is also why some very stupid self described leftists seem to have zero worry about the rise of fascism (even as they insist that they’re the only ones who truly take it seriously as a threat), they think “just do a socialism bro” will instantly fix everything as if economic hardship would never happen to a socialist society even within a vacuum.
They literally think you can just pay the racists to stop being racists, and that you can pay a heroin addict to stop shooting up.
This is also why some very stupid self described leftists seem to have zero worry about the rise of fascism (even as they insist that they’re the only ones who truly take it seriously as a threat), they think “just do a socialism bro” will instantly fix everything as if economic hardship would never happen to a socialist society even within a vacuum.
I have to admit - I’m having a hard time picturing how this would be expressed. Any particular examples you can point to?
All the “don’t vote” leftists that think democrats not voting Bernie is less forgiveable that the Republicans closing abortion clinics and kicking gay kids out onto the streets.
They think perceived direct opposition to socialism is worse than something they believe will just magically go away once they finish bribing the racists to not be racist.
I think the viewpoint of those folks currently is essentially that Dems will see a direct line between their support of Israel (for example) in the current Gaza genocide event and the fact that they did not heed in any way the voices of progressives, leftists, and others, and realize when Trump wins (again parroting what I believe to be their viewpoint) they should be more inclusive of those groups the next time around.
I personally don’t think that’s a strategy that will have long term or short term benefits, because I don’t think politicians in general seem capable of strategizing to that level of nuance regarding public opinion, but I can see where they are coming from.
Which is a just maddeningly privileged take.
Someone spouting that line off is basically all but admitting they see everyone a second term would put in harm’s way as pawns they can sacrifice at will for the sake of some war against this spectre of an evil conniving and completely unified in purpose and goals DNC establishment.
It is a PoV available only to white kids and those who get their politics from mainly white kids.
Not to mention on the Palestine issue, only a white kid could see the man who handed the Israelis East Jerusalem and West Bank about to get back into power and think the play that helps the cause is threatening to let it happen if we don’t stop everything and listen to their “Imagine” soundboard platitudes and shit.
I agree with you, but that’s where I perceive their viewpoint to come from. I actually think I did see at least one person say something like “it’s bad for gaza now, but will be better for gaza later” or something like that. Happy to be corrected by any folks of similar mindset who want to chime in though.
You become an incel by not getting laid.
Yeah, being an incel isn’t an ideology. It’s a material condition.
That plus being an ass in general I’d say. I’m 25, haven’t ever gotten laid and struggle with loneliness all the time, but still don’t think all women are sluts and are obligated to fuck me.
You’re right inasmuch as the meaning shifted to include all the misogyny etc. I still have sympathy for people who can’t get laid.
If you want something to be true and feel as if it’s true then you’re likely to believe it’s true.
Facts usually don’t change people’s mind and might make them defensive about their views because if they’re wrong it will hurt them personally in the ego and self esteem.
I can fully see how something like feeling superior can fit into that. This includes others being inferior as a corollary.
Then you mix in anger. You are angry and stressed about the current situation and then somebody that speaks well and is smarter than you in your opinion says “blame immigrants”.
This fits in the world view.
Then you can go online and see other people and they say “Nazis didn’t have this problem because they fixed it”. So you in your newfound and knowledge go out and tell people unapologetically and if anybody inferior, that makes you angry, says anything bad things can happen.
There’s a path to become a Nazi. I think people don’t intend to be bad, they care about people, Nazis don’t think everyone should count as people. It’s societal cancer.
Their evidence isn’t your evidence. Your curation of facts are never the same as anyone else’s. How you interpret these facts are reinforced by your family or friends. If you don’t have either you find community where you can. Rinse. Wash. Repeat.
This is the same for many communities. Where a person finds themselves isn’t necessarily malicious. They are protecting what they value and think is what makes them unique. That is what makes them dangerous. It’s all they have.
Because they provided simple answers to complex problems. Doesn’t matter if the answers are wrong. If a government is providing the simple answers, it’s because they don’t want to solve the problems for whatever reason.
When you hollow out the middle class (in the US sense of the term), people go looking for a narrative to explain it, to give them a reason they don’t get (or can’t give their children) the lifestyle they were promised in the media.
One narrative that fits is corporate greed, late-stage capitalism, enshittification and staggering corruption.
Another narrative, however, is all this rampant social change going on, people changing the demographics, changing the rules, changing definitions, changing the comfortable rules of thumb they were used to - and now everything’s shit, the two must be connected, we need to slam the brakes and catch our breath, perhaps even go backwards, and maybe conditions will follow suit. Even if they don’t, change is a loss of control, and that’s scary. We need to pull our heads in, hunker down and take back what’s rightfully ours from those we’ve been forced to share it with.
Once people start looking through that lens, everything starts self-selecting to fit - and they start thinking yeah, maybe those guys had a point.
Yes, there’s horrible shitty filter bubbles on social media and 4chan and everything else, but this stuff doesn’t take root without the underlying socioeconomic issues driving it.
As for incels - I don’t think people realise just how much social privilege is involved in having a peer group during childhood and adolescence to develop the give and take of social skills necessary for actually courting a partner. Consider the weird kids, the fat kids, the (disproportionally) poor kids, the ones with a fucked up home life, who didn’t get to form stable relationships, who didn’t get the practice at human-wrangling, who maybe ended up in a socially-isolating job, who had no ‘third place’ to hang out with people, to socialise and to meet people they might be interested in.
And once people start out without social skills, it can be really hard to pick them up; the embarrassment and exclusion that can follow small fuckups get exponentially worse as time goes on. And you don’t have to be painfully awkward, you just have to… not have game. Just enough to kick you to the bottom of the rankings, so failure (or the likelihood thereof) stacks up and becomes progressively discouraging, so you don’t try and don’t get practice.
And then it’s the same situation: the world doesn’t work for them the way they were told it would; they do all the things that they’ve heard were supposed to work (but without any of the nuance needed to do it successfully), and it just doesn’t.
For some of them, they feel like they’re getting singled out to get ripped off, or that the whole damn system is rigged; it’s a big club and they aren’t in it, as it were. So they look for a narrative, they look for someone to blame, they look for the bad guy, they look for a coherent explanation of why they’re the victim here. And of course that spirals out of control and ends up in a very bad place.
Fantastic summary! Thank you!
It makes a lot of sense when you put in like that, and makes me feel like helping people instead of ignoring/hating/looking down on them. How did you get these insights? Are you in the field of psychology?
As for helping - I think that once they get far enough down the path, there’s probably not much you can do for them. But compassion is always a good thing no matter who you spend it on.
As is sparing a thought for the poorly-socialised, and for the lack of opportunities people have to just hang out in any kind of casual social setting, if you’re not already part of a friend group.
Someone works a shit job in a dingy office with three people they hate and no general public flowing through, they’re exhausted at the end of the day and even if they had a place to go they just want to go home. Weekends are for laundry and chores and recovering from the week - and besides, what are they going to do, head to some bar and spend all their money drinking alone, just getting aloner?
Most of the opportunities out there rely on having either a pre-existing set of people to hang out with, or enough acquired charisma that they wouldn’t be in that situation in the first place.
Our society really needs to lower the barrier to entry for this stuff, but I have no idea how you’d go about that.
Our society really needs to lower the barrier to entry for this stuff, but I have no idea how you’d go about that.
I know. At least in the US. It sounds wonky, but think it through: Cars and zoning law. Between the two of those things, there are fewer and fewer third places. There’s nowhere to go to just be around other people. First (home) and second (edit: work) are incredibly isolated, too. You get in the car and pull out of the garage, and interact with nobody until you pull in to the lot at work. At best, you interact briefly with fast food workers for a few seconds at the drive-thru window. There’s no “local,” no stores, no restaurants, no cafés in the neighborhood; you drive to those. They draw from a large area, so you never see the same people twice there.
Proximity has always been the best builder of community in human history, and we’ve done away with it.
Nah, I’m just old - and I was the weird homeschooled kid; there but for sheer blind undeserved luck go I.
A little empathy goes a long way. There are some truely shit evil people in the world, but most people are good people who werent given the same chances, lost their way, etc.
Fascists provide easy (but often fake) answers to hard problems. Loneliness, the fear of replacement, that kind of thing.
That knowledge needs active reaching out, otherwise you’ll just be in the “bigotry is when irrational hatred of group for the sake of doing evil” camp, which can be easily converted with “experiences”, “statistics”, etc.
I grew up in a very prejudiced family, and my family liked to scream off their lungs at me when I called them racists, because racism was supposed to be done for the sake of evil like in a cartoon, and them having “extensive experiences” of Roma wrongdoings against them makes it okay for them to throw everyone of them under the bus, for the illusion of safety.
Garfield is wise. I vote for Garfield as dictator for life.
Lisan-al Gahib!!
Emotions are stronger then intellect, much stronger. And most of these people suffered in bad childhoods and were drilled or neglected into disempathy. (That’s not the necessary reaction to such childhoods but it’s a common reaction.)
Ok so your telling me since when I was bad in my childhood and spanked with a switch that I can become one?
Anyone can become filled with hate.
That’s certainly their rationale.
It’s weird how some people turn into neo-nazis or incels after that and I just pay sexy Russian dom mommies to beat me within an inch of my life.
No. Your response to such childhood is very individual. It’s a very common stance to live your life the opposite way of your parents lifestyle. That’s what produced the 1960s air of change in culture - hippies lived the very opposite of their parents ideals.
I simply point out well researched patterns in childhoods and their influence on character traits. Look up developmental psychology and transgenerational patterns. In Germany there’s a lot of research and publication about “war children” and “war grandchildren” (Kriegskinder und Kriegsenkel) which in general attributes a lot of the countries troubles and shortcomings to the upbringing of kids in a war and post war society with a lot of shame and guilt.
To be fair, those involved in the bad childhoods also are likely to have bad childhoods themselves (the adults I mean).
Transgenerational stuff, victims becoming offenders and the likes.
Yep, you’re right, that’s what’s meant here.
suffered in bad childhoods
Just to say, but what causes those things are hate and fear.
The second one doesn’t require trauma.
Fear is a general human trait woven into our existences and should/could be reduced in a loving and supporting childhood. If love and support are missing in your childhood you don’t learn to handle your fears in a mature and stable way.
(I know I’m painting this picture with a very broad brush. It’s to point in the general direction of feelings as the most plausible and applicable answer to OPs question.)
Humanity has this default setting where tribalism = TRUE, and social media gives you a place where you can form new tribes around anything and everything all of the time. As a matter of fact, it tends to encourage modern day tribalism. Why do you think antivaxxers and flat earth are a thing. In ancient times that sort of behavior was confined to the house of the local village idiot.
There’s a lot of information, there’s also a lot of misinformation. Many people don’t trust authorities, sometimes for understandable reasons, so they end up in the fringes.
Also, the Nazis, and even the Confederates, weren’t all that long ago in the grand scheme. A couple generations. Many people learn these tendencies from their family.
Also incels are somewhat different from Nazis/fascists. There’s obviously a lot of overlap. There’s always been men who had trouble with women, but I think being a male virgin after a certain age is enormously more vilified these days than it was in, for instance, the 50s, even among more progressive, left leaning groups. Admittedly, that’s anecdotal so I could be wrong.
but I think being a male virgin after a certain age is enormously more vilified these days than it was in, for instance, the 50s, even among more progressive, left leaning groups.
Not sure if this is true, but I’m pretty sure that research says that people were having more sex back then. So probably fewer virgins back then.
There was less to do for entertainment in the 50s, lol
Still a culture shift. Back then you were a stand up guy waiting for a dynamite gal to call his own, now you’re that weird 30yo who couldn’t get an easy lay in college and is too socially akward to date now.
Part of it is education and critical thinking. People don’t know what to trust because they don’t know how to test information for truthfulness and can’t reliably fact check. So they depend on an authority figure to tell them what and how to think, with expected results.
Note this isn’t limited to these people; some people just pick better authority figures than others.