I had to walk out of the library the other day. I was wearing noise canceling headphones and listening to music at a normal volume and yet a mom with three kids drove me out due to the fact they were running around and yelling like it was their house.
I travel and this is the new normal at libraries throughout the U.S. Many libraries now have an open area children’s section where the kids can play on the floor and be as loud as they want.
I do use study rooms at the library but not all libraries have them and a closed glass door does not block all the noise from a screaming baby/toddler.
Libraries are a shared space and in the past used to be quiet. Now in the effort to be inclusive to everyone they don’t enforce any noise rules because they want those moms and their screaming kids to come visit the library.
And of course, you cannot complain to anyone about this because if you do so you are a Karen and no one will care and then they’ll tell you “if you don’t like it you can leave” This is society now…everyone does what they want with no regard for others.
My library put a toddler play area next to the non fiction section. They make no attempt to stop any noise. The study areas have noisy teenagers and people watching videos with the sound on. Noone seems to care.
Libraries are not at all the quiet places I grew up with and I guess people like me just have to accept that we are not welcome. I resent it but it seems parents can no longer be expected to teach their children to be quiet and respect others using a space.
The enshittification of Meat Space…
There’s a few things here to unpack. Libraries have to evolve. And clearly, those doing the evolving have a goal of getting more kids in, which is laudable. Kids don’t just need to read, but need to love reading. However, that also doesn’t mean they should be allowed to just act wild. I would suggest you talk to the librarian about this if you haven’t already. Maybe they can move to a set of published “kids”hours and quiet (or near quiet) time otherwise.
Chances are, with childcare costs being what they are, these parents may have nowhere else to go with their kids. Again, have you talked with them about maybe keeping a closer eye on their kids and (very politely) suggesting they maybe need to go to the local playground or open space if their kids want to be rowdy?
And finally, have you considered that you yourself could be the problem? Yes, libraries have historically been quiet, study spaces, but things do change, especially as you are travelling. Yes, you want a quiet place to work, but that doesn’t entitle you to one unless you are paying for it.
You seem to putting yourself into a victim-mindset where it’s somebody else’s fault, and why oh why doesn’t somebody else fix it for me? I apologize if this is labelling you, and I do acknowledge that I have an incomplete set of information. So, while I agree with you in principle that people are getting selfish, this problem remains one of social contracts, and these only get resolved when people talk about them openly and without prejudice…
In short, you’re not a Karen for asking other people to be reasonable, as long as you do it from a position of empathy and understanding. And if you don’t get that back, you have to keep trying… You cannot change the world, but the world can change you if you let it
Yes, you want a quiet place to work, but that doesn’t entitle you to one unless you are paying for it.
Mental rest is a first need for any human being, at the same degree that is being fed. If you don’t agree, that’s only because you haven’t been pushed hard enough into your limits. We live in a world where people are growing increasingly individualistic, entitled to the point of “my freedoms end where I say they end, regardless of your needs”, and capable of provoking more and more noise through phones, speakers and fireworks, while roads are filled with more and bigger cars. So you can be certain that I’m going to be in radical support of anyone who says they need less noise, whether it is because they need to sleep, work or just chill.
I couldn’t agree more. The world needs to be more quiet, with people actually learning to think about the needs of others.
For example, it pisses me off no end when some asshole in the park is riding around blaring music out of a backpack speaker. Or that their dogs shit on public grassland. I’ve even walked up to people and asked them to please stop it. Surprisingly, one or two have but most just insult me, and there’s little I can do but walk away.
To a degree, they have a point, as do the noisy people in the library. Unless there is a rule that specifically prohibits it, all we have are the social norms we need to live by. If the majority want such places noisy, we’ll have to find new spaces. That’s what society means.
To be very clear, this does suck but you won’t change these people by complaining, only by building empathy and that is very hard to do when nobody cares about society any more.
The real unpopular opinion is always in the comments.
Great work.
Oh my god you (or the fictional parent we’re talking about) is literally being the karen.
They are disobeying the rules (not keeping quiet), they are acting entitled (by acting like the rules don’t apply to them), and they are now offended when called out for not following the rules (primo Karen behavior).
They also are taking their problems (loud noisy kids) and pushing it onto everyone else. (More entitlement. Sure my kids are loud, but they deserve to be loud more than you deserve a quiet space. My personal freedoms are more important than yours).
You claim that OP didn’t show empathy when I don’t see that they went and demanded they leave or anything, to me they showed restraint. (And don’t even begin to start the debate about them going and talking to a parent about that. We both know there is a zero percent chance that they wouldn’t immediately become the target or a barrage of hate and screams for asking them to please be quiet. I worked retail. I know how parents react). You however have shown zero empathy to their situation, their need to focus and study, instead only seeing your point of view. You claim social contract while ignoring that the parents broke the social contract or being quiet.
You’re entire point reads as “the parents wants and freedoms are more important than this person’s wants and freedom”. That’s the funny thing about freedom, none of us really get true freedom, because true freedom means other people have to lose theirs.
Check yourself. You are the selfish one.
Good work - Labelling someone is really going to help them hear your point of view… And that literally the precise opposite of what I am trying to say, which is that the posted rules are the thing that applies here. If loud kids are not prohibited the signs saying “be quiet” are no longer there, they are not technically in the wrong.
FTR, I totally think the parents are actually the assholes here, and not OP. My point is that if OP did indeed confront them, and he was insulted, he has little recourse but to walk away or find someone in charge of that space to deal with it. If there are definitively clearly posted rules, then point that out to them would help. Alternatively, talking to the librarian in charge is the next step.
I read OPs post more about this being a more common thing in libraries, and I hope that with enough complaints the loud kids will either stop coming, or learn to be more respectful (because yes, that is a parents job to teach their kids that). Unfortunately, I don’t think that will be the case as we have all but lost the ability to see someone else’s point of view.
Yes, you want a quiet place to work, but that doesn’t entitle you to one unless you are paying for it.
I am paying for it. We are all paying for it. I also pay for public pools where I think my dogs would love to swim in the summer, but that doesn’t entitle me to disrupt others just because I love my dogs.
This literally means that everyone has an equal right to use it… And you’ve paid for an agency to policy it.
In pools, this means the agency can create a rule for “no dogs”. In this case, the library does not either set or enforce a rule that says kids need to be quiet.
FWIW, I completely agree with your point as you’ve explained it. I also know that complaining to complete strangers won’t change anything. Unless there’s a few librarians on here, in which case, Librarians: WTF?
I’m not discounting your experience and I haven’t been in a public library more than a couple of times in maybe the last 35 years, but they were some of my favorite places growing up and I still help out by donating to them and such.
All of the ones I’ve been in have had the children’s section physically separated from the adult section by something like the lobby containing the librarian’s desk. Call it about 30-40 feet of space. Furthermore, the kid’s section wasn’t an “anything goes” kind of area - it was treated as an opportunity for kids to learn proper library behavior. The section had its own librarian who wouldn’t not hesitate to shush noisy kids.
So, while I don’t think yours is an unpopular opinion, I am hoping the experience is less common than you’ve seen.
Also, university libraries are often open to anyone (although you won’t be able to borrow books), so that might be an alternate option. They might not have public WiFi though.
Agreed, and it matches my experience. I go to libraries pretty frequently and there’s always a children’s section, and the non-children areas get little to no noise from children.
The public libraries where I live are exactly as you described. I’ve never heard the kids from the adult section.
Where I live the kids section is on a separate floor altogether. Not sure about this trend OP is describing, I don’t travel around visiting libraries though.
Most libraries I’ve been to, the children’s section is on its own floor
I mean, don’t expect a library to cater to your demographic if you arent there, being the regular customer/ patron.
A mom and 3-12 yo? That sounds like a great demographic for a library to cater to. And its a way to get their kid to engage with educational material in a fun way? And its free? Bro.
I think if you want libraries to cater to your demographic of use, you need to become the most common demographic.
Are you saying i need to become a mom so i can use the library?
I mean, I’m not gonna kink shame anyone if that’s your thing…
I’m just saying that library’s are going to (and should) cater and adjust their offerings based on who uses them.
Well they redid the library to cater to children and I stopped going. Success?
Well they redid the library to cater to children and I stopped going. Success?
Maybe you should have gone more often? Or maybe the feedbacks aren’t in place to make that circuit.
But why won’t anyone think about me?!
The problem here isn’t that libraries need to stop catering to parents with young kids, it’s that they’ve not set up an appropriate space, or time for these little kids to come visit.
My local library (and lots in the UK) have a designated time for things like group reading and kids corner sessions. That way they’re not disturbing random folks just trying to get about their day, and they’re also giving what can be a vital space for young children to discover books, and parents to interact with other parents.
Sounds to me like your library is failing to enforce it’s own rules.
“QUIET! THIS IS A LIBRARY!” - Lori-Beth Denberg
Hmm I’ve been in some very small libraries where this would be an issue, but most of the ones I’ve been in have the kids section on a separate floor and the kids head straight there. Perhaps what we really need is more funding for libraries so that more can do this.
Having children enters one into a contract with society. Society allows that you can have children. You agree to try your best to raise them to be a net good for society (or at least not harmful to society). People have forgotten this.
I’m probably biased, but absolutely agree, and take it further.
It used to be parents would take their kids outside and punish them, and I’m sure many are, but I personally have never seen it happen. Libraries are egregious, but other places too.
I get it. You’re tired, you’re overworked, parenting is hard. But they are you’re responsibility. Libraries are not childcare. Letting them run through grocery stores is not parenting. Sitting in a nice restaurant letting you child scream is not parenting. It is the parents job to teach them when it is and isn’t okay to run around and scream, and if they can’t handle it that’s fine, but they don’t belong there yet. Take them outside. That’s your job.
I still remember I was screaming and screwing around in church and my mom told my dad to take me outside. I remember because it was well over 90 degrees out and we’re sitting in the car. I finally chilled out and said “dad I’m hot”. I’ll never forget what he said
Yeah well I’m not too but it’s you’re fault we’re both out here.
It’s not comfortable being a parent, but that’s the role you’re in.
Yeah, but I think part of the issue where this is common now and not before is that children were allowed to be a lot more feral back in the day. There is an expectation that children should be watched by a parent at all times, and that is causing kids to build up a lot of pent up energy they can’t release.
I would agree. In my mind, let’s think from the parents perspective. Kids are pent up and need to get out. Why not… Go to a park or a playground and run around for an hour? Play games at home if the weather is terrible? If you’re trying to encourage reading then have them burn off that energy first and then go read.
Unstructured time was crucial to my upbringing and I don’t know why parents are so afraid to let their kids run around a park when they are wound up.
I don’t know why parents are so afraid to let their kids run around a park when they are wound up.
Probably because they are afraid people are going to call the cops on them.
Is this a thing? Why?
The presence of unwatched children in some parts of the US has gone from a common occurrence to a novelty that indicates bad parenting.
They don’t have to be unwatched just because they’re at the park.
I mean I think it can be both. Parents are tired, but they also aren’t parenting and disciplining as much. Actions don’t have consequences as much anymore. Look at the amount of teachers who have left because kids aren’t being parented at home and they aren’t getting any support for help from the administration or parents. I don’t know what changed when but as a parent I’m tired yes but that’s not an excuse. if my kid is acting up we are taking him outside.
I mean I think it can be both. Parents are tired, but they also aren’t parenting and disciplining as much
Yeah, because if you do more than speak sternly at a kid nowadays, you get child services called on you.
take their kids outside and punish them
Lol ok
There should be areas setup for kids or certain timeslots where it’s encouraged. But it’s also a case of parenting, when I was little I was made very aware how I need to be quiet when I was taken in there. You have to teach your kids respect.
Libraries are third spaces. They’re one of the last third spaces left. I fully agree that they should be quiet spaces for learning. But to accomplish that, we need to create more third spaces for other purposes.
This is society now…everyone does what they want with no regard for others.
When the universe does not align with your expectations, which is wrong? the universe or your expectations? You made the mistake of assuming the library was a quiet place. That’s wrong. Fix yourself. But if you want the library to be of quiet place, like I do, help to fix society so it can be.
How small was this library? My town’s local library is more than big enough that I would be able to move to a different room or floor or section to escape noise, and they had a designated children’s area downstairs. Even in smaller towns I’d imagine the average library has more than a single room. I live in Canada but I wouldn’t think it’d be that much different in most places in the US. Heck even my university library had multiple floors and was more than big enough to escape noise in one location especially with noise cancelling headphones.
Libraries should be quiet but I strongly disagree that they shouldn’t cater for kids, libraries are great for kids I take my toddler to our library fairly often and she’s learn to love books because of it.
The situation is just a shitty parent not an issue with libraries catering for kids.
I am a parent of a 6 year old and I would be absolutely mortified if he acted like that in the library. I am sorry on behalf of all of us parents that actually try.
And dads.
But as long as they’re quiet, or are trying to, it’s fine. The problem is bad parenting.
