• jwiggler@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    When are we going to protest. This is insanity.

    Here is an excerpt from the dissent:

    Looking beyond the fate of this particular prosecution, the long-term consequences of today’s decision are stark. The Court effectively creates a law-free zone around the President, upsetting the status quo that has existed since the Founding. This new official-acts immunity now “lies about like a loaded weapon” for any President that wishes to place his own interests, his own political survival, or his own financial gain, above the interests of the Nation. Korematsu v. United States, 323 U. S. 214, 246 (1944) (Jackson, J., dissenting). The President of the United States is the most powerful person in the country, and possibly the world. When he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority’s reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in ex- change for a pardon Immune. Immune, immune, immune.

    Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today.

    Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.

  • fubarx@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    And going forward, who decides what’s an official vs. unofficial Presidential act?

    • irotsoma@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Pretty much everything the president does while in office is official. So the more important question is what is within the president’s powers.

      The problem with immunity rather than changing the law is that all he has to do is prove that in some circumstance he has that power and that he believes that circumstance existed at the time and he used that authority to do it.

      For example, he has the power to order the military to assassinate, so the specifics of whether it was legal to assassinate a certain person can’t be questioned in court, only whether he has the power to issue that type of order. Because once it’s established that it is within his power and he states that he used his authority as president to issue the order, he is immune to any further prosecution. Also, it doesn’t matter if he ordered the CIA to do it and they don’t have that legal authority to act inside the US. In that case the president is breaking the law, he just can’t be prosecuted for it, only the CIA agents involved could be. It’s not presidential authority that is being violated in that case so it’s off the table for prosecution regardless of how illegal it is.

      • LordCrom@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Which means every case about presidential actions is appealed up to the supreme Court from now on

      • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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        3 months ago

        It’s actually the Court, which is a convenient aspect since it means only Republicans get immunity.

  • dhork@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    After mulling this over for these few hours, I realize what this ruling really does is render the President unaccountable to his Oath of Office. Any official act is presumed to be totally legal by the courts, unless he is impeached and removed from office over it. Much of his communications with his staff is now also not subject to review anywhere but Congress, as part of a formal impeachment proceeding.

    A President is now officially a king, restrained by no law in what he can use his office to do, as long as he has the support of half of the House, or 1/3 of the Senate.

  • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    3 months ago

    (3) Presidents cannot be indicted based on conduct for which they are immune from prosecution. On remand, the District Court must carefully analyze the indictment’s remaining allegations to determine whether they too involve conduct for which a President must be immune from prosecution. And the parties and the District Court must ensure that sufficient allegations support the indictment’s charges without such conduct. Testimony or private records of the President or his advisers probing such conduct may not be admitted as evidence at trial. Pp. 30–32

    This is how fucked we are. Right here.

    Testimony or private records of the President or his advisers probing such conduct may not be admitted as evidence at trial.

    So nevermind all that evidence you have of them planning it out in the open. Inadmissible in trial!

    Get fucked Supreme Cunts.

    • Blackbeard@lemmy.worldM
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      3 months ago

      So then nothing a President ever does can be considered premeditated. This timeline is fucking insane.

  • FireTower@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf

    Held: Under our constitutional structure of separated powers, the nature of Presidential power entitles a former President to absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for actions within his conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority. And he is entitled to at least presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts. There is no immunity for unofficial acts.

    The President enjoys no immunity for his unofficial acts, and not everything the President does is official. The President is not above the law.

  • Sabata@ani.social
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    3 months ago

    Biden can personally kill anyone at the supreme court and only lose his job now?

    • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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      3 months ago

      Only if he replaces them quickly with friends, otherwise they’ll decide certain acts aren’t “official”. This is designed so that the fascist court can whitewash fascist presidents, but opposing presidents still need to worry.

    • die444die@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      “When he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority’s reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune,” Sotomayor wrote.

  • P1nkman@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    America just got a MASSIVE step towards a dictator. WTAF is going on? I’m in the wrong timeline…

  • dogslayeggs@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    This ruling sounds good on its face, but it’s mixed at best and somewhat bad in the broad view.

    1. It doesn’t define what is or isn’t an official duty or act. It gives some examples and then says it’s up to the lower courts to decide what is or isn’t on a case by case basis. It specifically said some of the current allegations are official acts that can’t be prosecuted and said some of the others are probably not official acts but the lower courts will have to rule on them. I’m sure that will be a speedy process that gets done before the election!

    2. It also says it is the government’s burden to prove an act isn’t official, which will slow everything down and bring the cases back to SCOTUS again on a case by case basis. This also opens the possibility of political assassinations as being argued as official acts.

    3. It mentions Presidents having limited immunity from having to make documents available. It does say it isn’t absolute, but it definitely leaves the door open to block current court cases from using many documents as evidence and also leaves the door open to claim immunity for the classified docs case. Evidence fights at the current criminal cases are about to be much harder for the prosecution to win. Now, it does say that former Presidents no longer have this immunity but isn’t clear whether that is for all docs or only docs for after they are former Presidents.

    4. Maybe the worst is that it rules INTENT cannot be questioned. That is a core concept of criminal cases: intent matters! They are holding that it would bog down a President to be constantly asked about his/her intent when doing official acts, so therefor courts cannot question it. This REALLY opens the possibility of political assassinations, since intent behind the act cannot be questioned (e.g. it presupposes the person who was assassinated was committing treason or planning a terrorist attack and therefor the Presidential act was official). It does not say that former Presidents no longer have the Intent immunity, so this might be rough to clear in courts.

    5. It specifically ruled that it is 100% OK to fire a person if they don’t do the illegal thing the President asks them to do, as long as that person’s job is something the President can hire/fire. It also ruled that if the illegal thing the President asks them to do falls within their job duties, then the President is immune from prosecution for asking for that illegal thing.

  • MyOpinion@lemm.ee
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    3 months ago

    The Supreme Court does what ever the hell they want so I guess the president should be able to do the same.

  • BigMacHole@lemm.ee
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    3 months ago

    According to the Supreme Court it’s LEGAL for Biden to order the Assassination of Supreme Court Justices!

  • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    After stalling just long enough to make it a problem that won’t be resolved before the election. Wonderful.

    • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      3 months ago

      And also making it so that you can’t actually use a ton of the gathered evidence:

      Testimony or private records of the President or his advisers probing such conduct may not be admitted as evidence at trial.

      I think this is the part that’s going to fuck up the rest of Trump’s trials. Everything is going to suddenly be a private record.

    • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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      3 months ago

      And note that they don’t give him his immunity now. They 100% will when it makes it back up to them, but they can do half the ruling now to blow off a little steam and then when they declare insurrection and espionage official acts people will already be resigned to it. Same reason they leaked the Roe ruling. They’re worried about riots and being lynched if they give people enough of a focal point to organize.

  • TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com
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    3 months ago

    “My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel,”

    This was the moment for the the United States where we all start “ride a camel” again. The American Apex is over.

    • nomous@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      I tell people as often as I can, especially my trans and bipoc friends; now is the time. Get a couple guns (a long one and a short one) and learn how to use them. Learn some basic first aid, you really just need to know how to stabilize someone. Start networking with like-minded people in your communities. The police will not protect us, they’ve proven they’ll happily club senior citizens to the ground and shoot any protesters in the face with rubber bullets while escorting a rightwing murderer to safety.

      Iran was a secular, liberal state until almost 1980 when they (mostly legitimately) elected an Islamist theocracy; it could happen here