• TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        I’m going to assume you are arguing in good faith here. It’s not that simple at all. There are a myriad of reasons why they can’t leave.

        For one, Hamas won’t let them. The innocent civilians are being used as meat shields for Hamas bases. Hamas is known to guard the borders.

        They also don’t have the supplies or energy at this point to make the trip. Car travel isn’t possible with everything being bombed out right now. Gaza is not big and the warzone covers the whole area it’s not safe for these people to go outside. They are hunkered down wherever they can find. Nobody is offering to come rescue them, and even if some group wanted to, they couldn’t without putting their own lives at risk from attacks or crossfire from Hamas and Israel.

        I could go on, but instead I’ll just post this article from the Washington post that has a good breakdown.

    • Guydht@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      If Israel were nazis, you wouldn’t hear cries of civilians injured, because 2 million would’ve been wiped out.

      No. Israel is really not Nazi Germany, who killed its own citizens out of racism. Israel is fighting aggressive neighbors who will do anything to kill them. Don’t confuse the two, it’s a dangerous comparison since it’s so wrong.

      • PM_ME_FEET_PICS@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Isreal has been slowly killing these people for over 50 years. They have also been killing Palestinian, American and Canadian reporters who report on it as well.

        • Guydht@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          When reporters are going into active warzones, they get killed. Big shock!

          And Palestinian’s deaths are just as much on the hands of Hamas as they are on the hands of Israel. Since day 1 Hamas’s creed was annihilating Israel and its citizens, and they were true on those words. Do you expect Israel to just do nothing and let them grow even larger than what they’re already are? Do Israelis deserve no safety? Israel prioritizes its citizens’ safety above that of Gazans, and no one in the world can fault them for that, since every other single state in the world would do the same.

    • gr8b8m8@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Israel is a democracy ranked by the Economist to be more democratic than the US. All Israeli citizens have the same rights even the Israeli muslim citizens. In contrast every other country in the region discriminates against jews. Most do not let jews enter the country and have a history of previously expulsing jews. This is literally the definition of being a nazi state.

      • Auli@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        I can understand why they are probably afraid of being colonized and taken over.

        • gr8b8m8@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          No of your points can be proven, while it is easy to prove Israel is a democracy where all citizens have the same rights and all human rights inside her borders are granted.

          For example religious freedom (all religions can be practiced in Israel, in contrast to many neighboring states where Islam is the only religion) or the freedom of assembly such as the recent mass protest against the government in Israel

      • zephyreks@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Ranked higher than a country where many believe there to only be one valid party and that if the other party gains power that the entire democratic system will collapse and bring Armageddon?

        That’s who you’re comparing against?

        • gr8b8m8@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          The Economist also ranks Israel higher than Italy, India, Belgium, Poland or Croatia. Israel is top 29 in the democracy index.

          • zephyreks@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            India, the country best known for being notoriously corrupt to the point where it’s very noticeably hindering progress?

          • Evil_incarnate@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            So basically what you are saying is that the government represents the people and therefore most Israelis agree to commit genocide?

            • WuTang @lemmy.ninja
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              9 months ago

              no, maybe that The Economist is not reliable or does not shit about democracy.

              This is a theological regime first. Omitting this is hypocrisy

  • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    Ah yes, Hamas, the 7000 innocent men women and children murdered must have all been Hamas members. The entire strip is Hamas according to the IDF. That’s why its necessary to deprive children of food, shelter, water, and medical attention, all while raining hell down on them 24 hours a day. Makes perfect sense. They just have to you guys don’t you get it all the palestinians are hamas, and those journalists they murdered they’re all hamas too!

    • curiousaur@reddthat.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Well think about it. At this point, after all the trauma, how many of those kids are future Hamas? Gotta be safe.

      • Meowoem@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        I get the joke but there’s also the question of how many kids are currently Hamas, when kids include anyone under 18 then some of those kids are already going to be actively engaged in combat for Hamas.

        Or did we think that in Gaza everyone waits until they’re 18 before getting involved?

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          Or did we think that in Gaza everyone waits until they’re 18 before getting involved?

          Probably not considering the average age in Gaza is 19.

    • jorge@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      The entire strip is Hamas according to the IDF

      The IDF issued an order to evacuate the north part of Gaza. So anyone that didn’t evacuate? Hamas. And the people who evacuated? Hamas using human shields. Sadly this isn’t satire, it is the IDF’s actual justification.

      • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        And now the people who did agree to evacuate are beginning to return to the north because the south is being bombed as well.

    • Dontcare@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Hamas is the governing body there, they all celebrated and danced around dead bodies on 10/7- those people should die.

      They’ve been given warning to evacuate. Why doesn’t Egypt let them in? Remember the lie that Israel bombed the crossing?

      • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        9 months ago

        That doesn’t matter. If I tie you to a post, tell you to run away, and then when you are unable to run I say “well I warned you” and then shoot you - is that action suddenly not murder? Hamas has nothing to do with Israel murdering innocent Palestinians. Innocent Palestinians are not Hamas. They’re just civilians. They’re mothers, they’re the elderly, they’re children. They’re families.

        Warning to evacuate means nothing. Warning to evacuate is for natural disasters. That “warning” is just pretext to commit mass murder.

        “They all celebrated and danced around dead bodies on 10/7- those people should die.” Those people have nothing at all to do with Israel murdering innocent Palestinians every day. They’ve killed more Palestinian children since the 7th than all the Israelis killed on that day and since. Just the children. Where are your calls for the execution of the members of the IDF and the israeli state orchestrating the mass murder of children?

        • Dontcare@discuss.tchncs.de
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          They don’t have to tell them to evacuate, hamas attacked and started a war, there’s a war, they’re not tied to a post.

          There is no conceivable way that there wouldn’t be a war after what Hamas did.

          And you can use the typical pal trope of what about what Israel did before… And the fact of the matter is if you want to trace this conflict to it’s genesis its that pals follow a fascist Islamic ideology which is opposed to any Jewish state.of any form and no Jewish presence anywhere in the land. They are fascist. They have launched war and terrorists attacks , have been defeated and restrained and their only recourse is to hide behind children and play the victim, yell slogans to affect weak minded people.

          The Jews have always been willing to live in peace, live with a Palestinian state, live with arabs in the state of Israel. The Muslims have openly opposed any peace with Jews. Jews are the natives of the land and the Muslims have said even if an area is completely abandoned, a swamp or a desert, that Jews cannot be there, they are ok with Muslims from any other part of the world being there, they are ok with no one there, but not Jews who are the natives of the land. They are fascist. Imagine caring about the ‘character of the land’ and seeking to exclude Jews… It is a mosque built on top of the Jewish temple, Islam is the occupier. You see the fascist Muslims fight like this against the Jews as well as many other people in many countries, you are reflexive and weak minded if you are sympathetic to them when they complain about losing the wars they start, hiding behind children for propagana

          Are you a woman lady autumn? Do you have any idea what it’s like to be a woman in a fascist islamic regime? That in Iran and Gaza they kill women who don’t wear their head scarfs, will kill them if they talk to a man, what do you think their marriages are like? They are misogynistic and it’s no wonder they have such an easy time recruiting terrorists

          • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            Children never deserve to be murdered. Ever. No matter by whom or for what reason. I don’t have any response to the rampant amount of Islamophobia in general displayed here. Not all Muslims are violent misogynists. Innocent civilians who have done no wrong should never be murdered under any circumstances.

            • Dontcare@discuss.tchncs.de
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              9 months ago

              Murder is deliberately targeting, it is a war crime, it is what Hamas did, it is what Nazis did.

              When terrorists hide behind civilians and civilians are killed inadvertently in the midst of a war it is called collateral damage, they are not intentionally targeted and it is not Anwar crime. Again hamas is the war criminal hiding behind them.

              In every war civilians die because of collateral damage, in WW2, the civil war, every war. The difference is hamas targets children and hides behind them, Israel takes steps to avoid civilian casualties

              • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                9 months ago

                No, no, no. Throwing a fucking bomb randomly into a civilian neighborhood is not collateral damage. The civilians are the direct damage. Starving children and depriving them of water and healthcare is murder.

                You’re deliberately misrepresenting every single action taken by the IDF.

                • Dontcare@discuss.tchncs.de
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  No I’m not, the IDF targets hamas, maybe sometimes they miss. Hamas has been launching hundreds of rockets a day indiscriminately into Israel for years.

                  The gazans should go into Egypt, Hamas is the government and controls where aid goes

      • TinyPanda@lemmynsfw.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Even tho you ignore the fact that hamas was elected in 2004 and half the civilians currently alive in gaza are children who would of course not voted before they were born, how do you justify the explosion in settler terrorism in the west bank since gaza has been sieged? How do you justify the bombing of civilians in the west bank if theres no hamas there? Also if i gave you a warning to evacuate your home or die im sure you wouldnt leave so why should gazans?

        • Dontcare@discuss.tchncs.de
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          Your premise that there is land which is reserved for arabs is false. If there is empty land Jews can live there. I don’t care for the idea that arabs live freely in Israel with equal rights while in the west bank, or Jordan, or Iraq Jews cannot live there, have equal rights and in fact would be killed.

          You have had 75 yrs against Israel legitimacy and Israel has to take steps for security. Israel is tiny. Why can’t Jordan, which is a part of Palestine give land to the Palestinians or the state of Israel? Why was the entire land of Jordan given to ‘the heshimite family’ who are not even native to the land ?

          It is clear to anyone clear thinking person that islamic outlook is fascist and has been at open war against Jews and non Muslims for decades and centuries. And that they have been defeated, are the losers, and now peddle this pathetic propaganda and it takes root because of weak minded people whose thoughts are based on childish slogans that are recited in unison, have you read 1984?

          This is why the media is so highly censored in these places, that they scream over any debate, they are violent fascists, relying on censorship and propaganda, using any means to advance their idiotic religious agenda.

    • friendlymessage@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      7000… Isn’t that number from Hamas? I’m pretty critical of Israel’s reaction to the terror attacks myself but taking Hamas’ numbers at face value and to propagate that number without questioning it is extremely naive.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        They recently released a list of everyone who died in the last few weeks, with names and national IDs, numbering about 6400 IIRC. I think we can believe that. They said there were 200 or so unidentified victims.

      • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        No, it isn’t. I’ve followed the death tolls day after bloody day. I didn’t even know that hamas had made any claim about the death toll.

        And even the way you phrased that “pretty critical of Israel’s reaction to the terror attacks” is propaganda. Mass murder of civilians, depriving civilians of food water and healthcare, neither of those things is a reaction to anything. Those actions stand on their own. No one is forcing Netanyahu to kill children. He is happily doing it on his own.

        • friendlymessage@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          On the contrary: saying that these atrocities committed by Israel were not direct reactions to the atrocities committed by Hamas is intellectually dishonest. There is no good guy in this conflict, both sides are thugs out for blood with the civilians on both sides caught in the middle. Believing anything else is falling for propaganda.

          • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            Hamas is not equal to Israel. Israel is funded by the United States, directly funded and armed by it. Israel has support from the entirety of the western world, you know all the nations that hold disproportionate military and political power across the entire globe? Hamas isn’t even a military. They’re barely a militia. They’re a group of extremist terrorists who in response to literally apartheid have managed to lob a few missiles every couple years and to your credit have committed atrocities of their own. It pales in comparison to Israel and the IDF. Death tolls over the last 30 years are incomparable. Whenever Israel decides its appropriate, tens of thousands of palestinians die. When hamas ramps up and commits their own acts of aggression a hundred or two Israelis die. They do not have the same ability. Members of hamas are also Palestinians and are also being actively deprived of human rights by the Israeli state.

            You can repeat “both sides” over and over till your blue in the face. It’s not equivalent and anyone who can count can plainly see that. Anyone who bothers to read the history can plainly see that. Anyone who listens to any source other than the US government and the IDF can plainly see that. Anyone who values human life can plainly see the reality of ongoing apartheid and genocide in Israel. Palestinians are dying in droves. Israelis have been killed too, but the numbers are not and never have been even close. Note for a moment that the country is called Israel, Israel is occupying Palestine land. They’re colonizers. They always have been. That’s what happened. The allied powers after world War 2 said “the Muslim brown people in palestine don’t matter, you jews can go there and get out of Europe cause we don’t want you here”. And that’s exactly what they did. The entire time Israel has had a modern military funded by the world’s superpowers. The entire time Palestinians have been deprived of human rights. The entire time there has been no military of Palestine.

            Both sides is propaganda. There is only one side. There’s only 1 army. There’s only 1 state. There’s only 1 colonizing nation. Palestinian civilians are who always dies. And it is Israel killing them. Plain and fucking simple. The Israeli state government openly hates them. How do you justify the IDF calling Palestinians “human animals”? How do you justify Netanyahu saying he wants to “turn Gaza into a desert island”? You’re defending racist genocidal maniacs. I’m not defending the actions taken by hamas. I am however rightfully pointing out that by any fucking metric Palestinians are the victims here. By number of deaths, by apartheid, by their government (Israel) confining them to an enclave and depriving them of food water and medicine. By history, by the dwindling land they own. By discrimination in employment, housing and healthcare. By living under the power of a government who openly calls for their genocide and calls them animals. By a racist dictator with one of the most powerful militaries in the world and the unwavering support of the single most powerful nation on earth.

            There’s no rebuttal to that. Israel has to stop or be stopped. There is literally no argument to the contrary. Genocide is wrong. Depriving children of food and water is wrong. Bombing innocent families is wrong. Bombing hospitals and shelters is wrong. Bombing lines of evacuees is wrong. Killing journalists and paramedics is wrong. And they’ve been doing it with impunity for the last 40 years. The reaction to 1 atrocity being committed should not be to commit a hundred thousand atrocities. It didn’t have to be. They chose this. Palestinians have no army, and they live in Israel. Israel could have chosen any other way to address this situation. 30 years ago they could have chosen, along with the US, to pursue diplomacy. But instead they said Palestinian culture was unacceptable and could never be tolerated alongside Israeli culture. They compared them with rats, and walked away from negotiations. You can thank Netanyahu for that. This was the path Israel has chosen time and time again. And they are taking full advantage of the opportunity to commit war crimes against Palestinian civilians.

  • Grant_M@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    Terrorist Hamas could easily solve this by separating themselves from the civilians and hostages in Gaza. But they won’t, because Hamas terrorists hate Palestinian civilians and prefer to use them as shields.

    • RT Redréovič@feddit.ch
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Terrorist Israel could easily solve this by separating themselves from Palestine. But they won’t, because Israeli terrorists hate Palestinians and prefer to have them Genocided.

        • jorge@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          Israel has full control over the airspace, seaports, and TV transmissions, in addition to imposing a blockade. Doesn’t sound like “separated” to me.

          • M0ty@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            Let’s imagine a world where Gaza has a open sea and air access? Do you think it would’ve changed events of October 7th? Do you think Hamas would’ve fired more or less rockets? Or maybe denounce violence?

            • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              9 months ago

              The rockets are a direct response to the blockade so yes, very much yes. And before you say the blockade started in 2007, no it started in 2005 and was tightened in 2007.

              • Guydht@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                9 months ago

                You’re either super innocent, or super brainwashed if you truly believe that open sea and air spaces for Hamas would mean less violence.

        • TherouxSonfeir@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          Technically they’re all inspiring terror and using regular people as cannon fodder. Both sides are to blame, god is fake, and their “holy land” is worth nothing.

        • RT Redréovič@feddit.ch
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          I support all progressive national liberation movements in Palestine against the Zionist Terrorist Regimes of Israel and Amerika.

          • AchillesUltimate@lemy.lol
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            Even ones that actively celebrate rape and murder? Even ones that will oppress women?

            Does this even count as a ‘progressive’ movement if it institutes an intensely religious dictatorship?

          • Grant_M@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            Hamas terrorists murdered several of my fellow Canadian citizens. Fuck you

              • Grant_M@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                9 months ago

                Because those fucking Hamas terrorists are using civilians as shields. Are you pro-terrorist weirdos playing with a full deck? What the goddamned hell is wrong with you?

                • Niello@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Do you think shields matter against intentional blind bombing on civilians? Or do you seriously think they are not purposely aiming for civilians? Use your brain.

                • Deceptichum@kbin.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  So if someone took a person hostage, you’d be fine if the cops torched half a city in response?

                  Israel killed those people with its indiscriminate bombings.

                  Fuck Israel and fuck Hamas, I’m siding with the city of largely children being murdered for decades by Israel.

    • Annoyed_🦀 🏅@monyet.cc
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      They want illegal Israel settler to fuck off and respect the green line and not oppress them or something.

      Ohh wait, that’s not Hamas, that’s Fatah of Palestine Authority, which Israel in respond is to oppress them even harder.

    • RT Redréovič@feddit.ch
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Read their fundamental documents. Hamas wants peace and a sovereign Palestinian state where Jews and Arabs can thrive peacefully among each other. Unfortunately the Zionist Entity has a different meaning of peace where all Palestinians regardless of being Muslims, Christians or Jews are ethnically cleansed and their lands settled by White Settlers.

      • MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        That part of their charter implies Islamic government is the ONLY way for peace in the region. Islam also has rules for those who don’t convert.

  • fiat_lux@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    The world is on fire and instead of working together to extinguish the flames, we’re just using what resources haven’t yet burnt to make more fire to kill each other with.

  • tallwookie@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    UN’s not going to do anything - their mandate is to attempt to prevent conflict, not stop conflict when it occurs.

  • subignition@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    The most important thing I’ve learned from discussions around this conflict is that about 95% of the chucklefucks involved are not equipped to discuss it and should shut the fuck up, myself included

    • Guydht@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      If that were their goal 2 million would’ve been obliterated already. Stop assuming they’re racist and think what they can do from their perspective. They have over 200 kidnapped, mostly civilians, and they’re dealing with a group which proved physically that their only goal is killing civilians for terror.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        Stop assuming they’re racist and think what they can do from their perspective.

        Bro they’re literally committing warcrimes according to the UN. Examples include:

        Bombing refugee trucks fleeing North Gaza.

        Giving orders to evacuate to certain locations and then bombing them.

        Using white phosphorus.

        They have over 200 kidnapped, mostly civilians,

        Well in that case don’t bomb them because they’re also dying in these attacks.

        • Guydht@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          Using white phosphorus? No legit source confirmed that. That’s some nice propaganda by Hamas who have been proven to lie constantly.

          Idk about the 2 other claims, but it’s easy to believe them. I’d like to think they had a good reason bombing so called “safe spaces” but the truth is that there couldn’t be a safe place in Gaza right now. Not when Hamas is legit everywhere.

          And about the kidnapped, do you really think they can just march into the tunnels and just grab them and say bye? Dead soldiers can’t save anyone. They’d rather kill some and actually rescue some, than keeping them alive while getting hundreds if not thousands of soldiers running to their deaths in trapped underground tunnels. Doing a ground invasion without bombing the area first is just suicide.

          Seriously, what the hell do you expect Israel to do in that situation. Think for just a second from their perspective and you’ll realize what they’re doing is necessary.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            Using white phosphorus? No legit source confirmed that.

            https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon

            There you go.

            Idk about the 2 other claims, but it’s easy to believe them. I’d like to think they had a good reason bombing so called “safe spaces” but the truth is that there couldn’t be a safe place in Gaza right now. Not when Hamas is legit everywhere.

            And that justifies bombing trucks full of refugees?

            Doing a ground invasion without bombing the area first is just suicide.

            Nobody said do a ground invasion in the first place. Negotiations are obviously the way to go here.

            • Guydht@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              9 months ago

              That article literally starts with “Beirut, oc.12”. Saying lebanon are a good source of facts is delusional.

              And that justifies bombing trucks full of refugees?

              Again, source? And not an obviously biased one. Either way though, I can see that happening as a part of a war. Hamas are literally hiding between innocent women and babies, and that means those women and babies are killed. Does Israel have a hand in those deaths? Yes. Is Hamas responsible for those people? 200% yes and much more than Israel. Hamas started this attack very well prepared militarily, and with zero civilian infrastructure preparations. Not only did they not think of “what’ll become of our civilians” they actively hold them from running to the south (which is still less bombed than the north). Blaming Israel and protesting against Israel is just ignoring the other side being completely wrong

              Oh ok so 1400 dead and 200 kidnapped and they’re supposed to just tap Hamas on the wrist and call it a day?

              Israel’s response is deadly, and 100% known since day 1 by anyone who is even a bit knowledgeable on the conflict. And that includes Hamas, which just disregard their citizens as colletaral damage in the pursuit of their lunatic jihad mindset.

  • Guydht@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    “stop the bombs”… But only incoming ones, not outgoing ones from Gaza because they’re friendly rockets which are a symbol for peace! Look, we’re such peaceful people who want peace!

    Obviously Israel should just stop its efforts of freeing over 200 kidnapped citizens. Oh they also should pack up their bags, leave their home, kiss Hamas’s feet, thank them for massacring civilians and pillageing homes, and let them take the entirety of Israeli land and start a new state called Iran.2.0.

    Maybe then jews in Berlin won’t have stars of david sprayed on their homes.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Obviously Israel should just stop its efforts of freeing over 200 kidnapped citizens.

      Yes, freeing those citizens from life by bombing them.

      • Guydht@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        There is literally no other way of entering Gaza on foot but to bomb the area beforehand. Dead soldiers won’t bring back any kidnapped prisoners.

        Saving a few alive is better than adding hundreds of dead soldiers, entering their death to underground narrow death tunnels, filled with traps.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          9 months ago

          There’s no reason to invade in the first place. Hamas has already asked for negotiations to free the hostages. “Saving a few or saving none” is a false dichotomy.

          • Guydht@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            9 months ago

            No reason to invade? And they’re supposed to do what, say “ok don’t do it again thx bye” to Hamas???

            Hamas proved their lack of willingness to do anything but kill (Israelis and their own citizens). If Israel just backs down in a few years they’ll have another attack, much bigger this time. There’s no other way but to destroy Hamas, who no matter what are set only on death.

            Any state in this world, after events like oct.7 would destroy the ones responsible. And saying they should just work towards peace, at this point, is gullible and delusional.

  • dangblingus@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    Interesting to me, that Israel, the country that is most well known for cyber security and big tough guys who are good at martial arts, can’t find random Hamas insurgents and take them out with precision strikes. No, it has to be artillery.

    • Guydht@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      You really think they don’t know where Hamas’ leaders are? They know, but it’s probably impossible to kill them, since they hide under hospitals in underground tunnels, and no type of ammunition can penetrate 30m deep underground without obliterating the building above it. No country in the world has faced these kinds of fighting conditions, and even the U.S had trouble fighting in the middle east because of probably these same reasons.

      They’re not fighting another army, with a base and well defined targets. They’re fighting a terror organization operating from civilian homes.

  • Resol van Lemmy@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    Hamas hides in civilian places. In return, Israel bombs said civilian places, killing everyone but mostly uninvolved innocent folks, most of those are children. And yet when they try to leave, Hamas won’t let them, and Israel bombs the exit anyway.

    I feel like these two guys are secretly allied to commit genocide or something.

    And yes, I’m waiting for the downvotes to come in. I don’t even care anymore. Just press the button.

    • DaBabyAteMaDingo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      Your take is way more chill than the others I’ve seen that secretly support Hamas. You seem honest about the situation while others lean way too heavily on one side - which is scary to think that a rational position is a hot take nowadays.

  • pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    The whole shitshow is driving anti-Semitism and anti-Muslim hatred through the roof and I genuinely think people’s irrationally singular focus on the issue is just a release valve for their anger, fear and anxieties about all of the other issues plaguing modern life right now.

  • lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    Offtopic: Before the war started, I used to think that western media1 (read AFP, AP, Reuters, and BBC) were least biased sources, unlike the corrupt media of my country.

    But now I’ve become suspicious whenever a news regarding world affairs is published by them.


    1: I don’t consider other sources like the sun, CNBC, etc. since they don’t enjoy as much positive reviews, and aren’t as big outlets as the once mentioned above.

    • TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      The first 3 are wire services. They do have staff reporters, but most of their content is generated by other news organizations that are subscribers to them. I wish more people understood how wire services work. It’s part of being media literate.

      Basically if I’m a subscriber to AP (true of Reuters and AFP as well) I can publish their content and edit it however I want, and I can contribute my own content (put it on the wire) as long as I use their in-house style-guides which for AP is the industry standard in the US anyway.

      All of which is just to say that a wire service story may or may not have been reported by someone who actually works for that wire service. Usually, at least with AP and Reuters, it will say in the biline.

      • lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        I understood that they give access to their articles to other news services, but didn’t know that they themselves source it from other news servicesk if this is what you mean?). I used to think they were the primary producers.

        most of the stories I read say AFP or AP either in the beginning or the end, so does that mean they published them? or just that they got it from them?

    • DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      9 months ago

      This is a really salient point.

      I get a lot of news from Australian Broadcasting Corp. Generally considered to be reasonably balanced.

      Just as a “random” example, this is the most recent article on the gaza conflict:

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-29/israel-says-war-with-hamas-enters-next-phase-in-gaza/103035732

      It’s factual as in “this person said this, someone said that”, but there’s no mention very much of what Gaza’s political leadership (yes, Hamas) has to say. By contrast, in the Ukraine conflict it was all about what Ukraine had to say but there were at least interjections of Russia’s public statements.

      That said, they’re not really pulling their punches, comparing death tolls et cetera.

      • lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        9 months ago

        not this article(hence the “offtopic” disclaimer), but an amalgamation of news reports published by these outlets since the beginning of this month. I’ve come to the conclusion that they have certain bias towards Israel.

  • vsh@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    9 months ago

    Both Israel and Gaza should nuke themselves. I don’t fucking care. This conflict is a parody of what’s happening in Ukraine RIGHT NOW.

  • superguy@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    9 months ago

    If you go over to astroturfed reddit, there is no shortage of topvoted comments cheering the IDF for bombing children by saying “they’re all hamas.”

    The same rhetoric Hamas probably used to justify killing Israeli civilians. But it’s okay if Israel does it, because you know.

    • spider@lemmy.nz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      9 months ago

      But it’s okay if Israel does it, because you know.

      “God’s chosen people”, playing God.